11 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Not every group will keep Jar Jar Binks around. Many of them will dump his sorry butt the first chance they get. The galaxy might be better for it too.

Yes, but Jar Jar was a comic relief character, nothing more; at least in TPM. What @Ahrimon seems to be referring to is a character who spreads his or her XP around to a variety of skills and talents in order to be a more flexible character who can be at least passible at many things, and thus more useful in multiple situations instead of so hyper focused on a single task that he or she is useless at everything else.

On 9/1/2018 at 5:05 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

To be frank, I loathe the "must totally optimize my character!" crowd. These are the folks that have a tendency to suck the fun out of games, as heavens forbid the other players in the group allow their PCs to develop naturally. Or worse, that even the slightest deviation from their path of 1st level nobody to 20th level superstar would occur, even if the events of the game suggest that an alternate path of development would be more appropriate.

That crowd of folks were one if (many) reasons I've lost my taste for the d20 system in general, to the point there's very, very few d20-based games that I'll willingly play.

They also twist any campaign concept, story arc, or individual situation towards that one thing they do well, to the exclusion of anything else. This way of playing robs everyone else of their time in the spotlight.

1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

You ever see somebody play a Soldier (Medic) and decide that they are a pacifist that won't carry a weapon? Oh, yeah... like in Hacksaw Ridge , sure... except that this character also refused to use drugs of any sort, so no stimpacks for his patients and he wouldn't take the Stim Application talents either. He planned on going Force-Sensitive Emergent and then into Healer to become a faith healer, but the group of characters dumped him well before that was going to happen because he was largely dead weight for several sessions and was probably going to stay that way for many more. The player of the Soldier (Medic) made up a new character that actually contributed to the group's successes and all were happier.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, but Jar Jar was a comic relief character, nothing more; at least in TPM. What @Ahrimon seems to be referring to is a character who spreads his or her XP around to a variety of skills and talents in order to be a more flexible character who can be at least passible at many things, and thus more useful in multiple situations instead of so hyper focused on a single task that he or she is useless at everything else.

I was speaking more in reference to how the un-optimized character tends to be the organic points towards the latest shiny event one or even the ones that simply spread things out. Points have to go somewhere, so it tends to create a well rounded ok at all but great at nothing type of character that can contribute something in just about every event. The type of character that HD refers to is different. It's more of a fish out of water. But I see it as just a difference in expectations. Like I mentioned before there's a spectrum and that player is deeply on the social end while the rest of the group is closer towards the combat end than him/her. If that player had been in a group that was much heavier into the social portion of the game, it probably would have been fine.

I can understand a character not fitting a group, and it very well could simply be an issue of mistaken expectations from the players. After a discussion, one or both sides should be willing to adjust to line things up better for the group as a whole. Unfortunately that's easier said than done in my group. We play as part of a gaming club so we can't drop players without cause. Our outlier sort of isn't doing it on purpose. He has Asperger's and focuses on power-ups and riches to get power-ups. So, while he can be frustrating to play with, he hasn't crossed a line for us to dis invite him yet.

Now, someone who joins a game knowing where it falls and then purposely plays against that is just being a bad player and should be dis invited.

On 9/1/2018 at 11:37 PM, HappyDaze said:

While that example is certainly one extreme that would be annoying, the opposite approach can be equally annoying. What I mean is the player that makes significantly sub-optimal choices in character development and gear to the point of being ineffective or considerably less so than the rest of the group. These are the characters that every player in the group realizes have no business being in the PC party, but they are 'stuck with them' just because they are PCs. These characters not only don't pull their own weight, they can even drain group resources or--in extreme cases--reduce the effectiveness of others in the group. This gets even worse if the issues go beyond mechanics and the offending character is something that is disruptive to group unity (like, say, a witch in a WFRP game with a party of zealous Sigmarites).

I actually have one of each in my group. The Min-Maxer luckily doesn't force his ideals on everyone else but his character is planned out well in advance so as soon as he gets XP, he knows right where it is going. On the other end of the spectrum, builds his character to try and fill whatever perceived lack the party has and, as a result, never has a solid character as it is spread way too thin.

Yes, the two players can get irritated at each other but they normally don't destroy the game over it. I prefer to optimize a character while not focusing on only one aspect. I like to have something to do when not in a combat situation which I see too many player forgetting to do. I have a whole group of players who all failed to take 1 rank in computers. Luckily, we did have a pilot so they can at least get from planet to planet (if they ever succeed on an astrogation check)

On 9/5/2018 at 12:55 PM, Varlie said:

I have a whole group of players who all failed to take 1 rank in computers. Luckily, we did have a pilot so they can at least get from planet to planet (if they ever succeed on an astrogation check)

As a person that is playing in the OP's campaign, we had the same with "Mechanics" skill in our campaign at the start. So a extra five xp is a big deal to our starting characters, and still even after we gotten up to 120 xp after last night's session. If anyone is min/max-ing, it would be me with my Elomin-Consular/Teacher/Niman Disciple with the Force Powers: Sense/Enhance that fights with two light sabers. I kinda had to go that way because we were weak in combat (our first four fights ended with us running away). Not the most disfunctional group I've played in, but we do have our moments. lol