Keth'ra and Baron - "Allies"

By Viktus106, in Runewars Rules Questions

Something came up recently.

Keth'ra:

"After setup, choose 2 allies..."

Baron:

"After setup, choose 3 allies..."

Apparently, you can:

1. Apply this condition to yourself as you are an ally of yourself and it doesn't say "choose 2 / 3 other allies."

2. You can choose the same "ally" more than once as it doesn't specifically say you can't.

Now personally, I think:

A. You cannot choose yourself because you are not an ally of yourself. An ally is someone aiding you, not you personally.

B. It says choose 2 / 3 allies, hinting at choose 2 to 3 separate ally units to receive these boons.

What is the general consensus of the forum?

Can Keth'ra have Kingsbone + shield of Margath + Unnatural Growths?

Can Keth'ra have have Kingsbone + Shield of Margath + Unnatural Growths + Unnatural Growths?

Can Baron Z choose himself to be a target of a vitality token?

Can Baron Z choose himself three times and make himself have seven wounds?

Can Baron choose the same unit to receive all three, essentially making a Rune Golem unit 4 armour 5 wounds?

Is this the way to Amarillo?

IMO:

Allies are other units in the army with the unit in question. The unit is not its own ally, so they can't put the conditions/tokens on themselves.

X allies means X distinct units. Spread the tokens/conditions around.

Edited by Xelto

RWM 8.1: A unit is allied to itself and can affect itself with any of its abilities that affect allied units unless those abilities explicitly affect “other” allied units.

As for multiple conditions or tokens on one unit, no good. You pick them, and then those that are picked receive the bonus - if you picked one rune golem 3 times, it would still only receive 1 token. You're not actually handing out the tokens or cards, you're selecting targets for an ability to resolve, so you can't double or triple up.

But yes, Baron Zachareth can start with a Vitality token and Kethra can take Unnatural Growths.

Edited by Bhelliom

Group consensus on figure upgrade within an allied unit? Even further multiple figure upgrades in a single unit?

my initial thought is yes to the first, probably no to the second?

Under what context? I believe the unit as a whole is an ally, but a figure upgrade would not be an ally. However, I see no reason why the vitality token from Zachareth couldn't be used to prevent a wound on a figure upgrade. And I don't think you need to specifically select one figure upgrade for it to get the benefit. If you've got 4 figure upgrades in the unit, I think the vitality token could be used on any of them or a regular figure from that unit as long as the unit has a vitality token. That's my interpretation.

Vitality tokens are boons so once allocated to a unit, they can be spent to prevent one wound on that unit, regardless of what the target is within that unit. I also assume that a unit can have multiple if they come from different timings aka Baron Z choosing an ally at the start of the game and then activating, becoming the Savior and choosing them again.

As an example of my understanding on the spending of one; you gave a 3 x 2 Spearmen unit a Vitality token and someone managed an accuracy, chose your Lance Corp to receive a wound, you could then spend the vitality token instead. Additionally, you could spend the token to stop a single Spearman from being removed.

I think its going to be a good addition to the game. However, the costing of it must of been quite problematic. How do you price something that is so viable?

Viktus106 and Budgernaut read the ability the way I do. It can be spent to prevent wounds to character upgrades within the unit that carries the boon, or if your opponent doesn't target one of those characters, you have the option to decline to use it to protect run of the mill infantry if you want to save it for the character upgrades. If you want to hold onto that last body in a rank to protect your reroll or something, though, feel free to spend it on a normal dude, too.

Ok so this is extremely relevant to my interests, so I'm doing some digging in the RRG. Disclaimer: it's all kind of pointless until we see the actual rules text on Vitality tokens, but speculatively:

  • Assuming we're talking about picking out units with Accuracy results, this text is interesting: "2.5 - Each time a wound is suffered by a figure that has an accuracy (?) icon, one accuracy icon on that figure is spent." Now I assume that preventing a wound with a Vitality will count as the figure suffering that wound and therefore spend the accuracy, but that is not immediately evident in the rules.
  • You can definitely spend the Vitality to prevent an Accuracy'd mortal strike on a figure upgrade, because it is its own step. If your opponent has multiple mortal strike results to spend AND preventing the wound somehow doesn't spend the Accuracy, then I see nothing preventing them from assigning further mortal strikes until you run out of Vitality.
  • Damage seems to work the same way. You spend hits to cause the defender to suffer damage, and you can assign damage from the pool towards individual figures. If your opponent can assign multiple wounds worth of damage, whether through Accuracy or just it being in the back rank, there doesn't appear to be anything stopping them from simply trying again after the Vitality token is spent.

All this to say, Vitality tokens will probably act to counter Accuracy results, which is pretty sweet and will make my Lance Corporals extremely durable.