2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I mean, we don't know really what's going to be competitive yet, but I have 4-5 Quad X-wing lists that I feel okay taking against whatever.

You mean the game is called X-wing and the faction that has them is kinda built around them? Exactly like in the movies?

Wow

5 hours ago, Embir82 said:

The truth is Rebels got things that are playable and they can win (Dutch, Wedge, Airen) but they are boring in comparison to Empire - all I can see when trying to do a Rebel list is a brick formation. Look at ships like Vader or Phantom, these are pretty fragile ships who premium good flying and flanking, with a lot of options and ways to build. In comparison look at Corran Horn - it would be a great ship, with lot of options and ways to fly but unfortunately it is horribly overpriced - also I don't understand why he doesn't have at least one point of force.

This is the problem. The things that can easily deal with swarm and fortresses are overcostet. And a lot of the things from Rebel that are undercosted rolls over against those strategies.

Just like in scum, I feel the premier ship of rebels is the now incredible Moldy Crow (who'd'a,thunk!?!?)

While they're not nearly as monstrous late game as Mux/Palob, they got Range 1-3 support abilities that let them play synergy while not shackling them to formation flying

Perceptive + moldy is also a basically better Luke v multiple attacks

Now it's just a question of finding worthwhile synergies, of which I've only tried Kyle + proton torps Wedge

There'll probably be others like Roark + Rex, or Jan + self-sufficient full mods (Luke, Braylen)

This'll breed an archetype of mobile synergy lists that won't be jank provided there aren't too many moving parts (ie requiring more than one support* ship)

*Something like Moldy or Garven shouldn't be considered full support, because they can actually support while retaining mods

Rough Draft

(47) Garven Dreis
(1) Crack Shot
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points 48

(38) Sabine Wren
Points 38

(52) Wedge Antilles
(1) Crack Shot
Points 53

(38) Kyle Katarn
(10) Perceptive Copilot
(12) Moldy Crow
Points 60

Total points: 199

Keep forgetting servomotors, don't make that same mistake

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Now it's just a question of finding worthwhile synergies, of which I've only tried Kyle + proton torps Wedge

Yeah, Kyle and Wedge is basically first on my list of potentially serious stuff to run when I get my hands on all the cards in a couple of weeks.

Looks really decent. I've added some extra jank with Intimidation on Kyle. Plan is to point the turret backwards, focus stack in the first two turns, and basically fly Kyle out front as a blocker with Wedge behind him. If Kyle blocks or bumps them, they get their agility reduced. If they don't, they're eating a range 1 shot from the Molfy Crow front primary. Wedge locks, Kyle passes a focus and boom. Wedge shoots torps at range 3 with full mods.

Best part is, if I take R3 on Wedge this only needs to happen once. Everything after that is totally flexible. Wedge shoots his second torp at the second target, and because it's already locked he doesn't need Kyle support. Kyle can bump or block for Intimidation. Kyle can pursue and shoot his primary. Kyle can rotate and engage something else. Kyle can keep supporting Wedge and pass him a defensive focus if needed.

I don't know whether that is actually an improvement or not, or how helpful Engine Upgrade would be. But I'm looking forward to the experimentation. Might be that anything other than MC and Perceptive Copilot is wasted points, might be that boosting into a range 1 shot or an Intimidation bump will make him a really flexible low IN 'ace'.

Only thing left is to figure out who else to fill the list with, and if there's anyone better than Thane loaded out in the exact same way as Wedge.

1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

I never said it is the only way to fly Rebels, I said it is the only way to use them efficiently with current ships and cards that we have. I am all for multitude of archetypes available for given faction.

Show me your example of a Rebel list that is competitve and tournament viable that is based around flying ships individually without looking for back-up from other ships & pilots, or brick formation. Maybe I am missing something.
Because when I pick Empire I can fly really solid archetype of Whisper & Rexler & Blocker, brutally efficient TIE swarm, Bomber horde or some kind of Ace & miniswarm variation, or many more viable combinations. I just can't see this kind of flexibility in Rebels.

I disagree that it's the only way to efficiently make a Rebel list with the ships we have now. There are a lot of things that can be done.

Also, just a bunch of ships flying around independently is pretty stupid. There are things you can do that are not just a bunch of independent actors or a formation. There is using blockers. There is Hammer and Anvil. There is bait and flank. Tons of ideas.

I know I tend to like generics, so I'm thinking 3 Blue Squadron X-wings and 2 Green Squadron A-wings with Cluster Missiles/Homing Missile (one of each). The X-wings can fly together and the A-wings can flank. I think having 5 solid ships is pretty potent.

1 hour ago, WAC47 said:

True, and it has been a real challenge for me to shift my thinking!

That’s what I kept telling myself when I was trying to build Rebel lists... but then I saw the kind of synergy available to Imps and Scum and my new understanding of the power balance went out the window. It’s still a massive change from 1.0, but I do think the Rebels suffer more (which is fair, given their dominance at the end, but still sucks for a middling Rebel player like myself).

I think we just haven't found the good synergy. I remember about 2 months ago and all the forums were saying Rebels were broken and Imperials were getting shafted. Tons of threads and bitter people going on about how Imperials were going to suck in 2.0. Now, all I see is tons of threads about Imperials are near unbeatable. Most people haven't even gotten their hands on the game yet! There is a lot of speculation and group thought. People just need to try the game out for a bit.

One thing I think most people are going to do for Rebels is load up on too many things. I'm thinking a solid list of 5 or so generics will be a good list to take.

@GuacCousteau ooh, definitely wouldn't try leveraging the crow as a blocker

It's far more durable than it seems, sure, but it's almost sixty points of five health. A lot of its survivability comes from side-winding with the occasional boost

EDIT: Didn't realize Arvel with intimidation was 39 points ..swap Sabine for him if you so desire. Then you can target lock + vectored and have Garven maybe feed him full mods while Kyle helps Wedge

Besides, we have Arvel for intimidation ?

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

@GuacCousteau ooh, definitely wouldn't try leveraging the crow as a blocker

It's far more durable than it seems, sure, but it's almost sixty points of five health. A lot of its survivability comes from side-winding with the occasional boost

Besides, we have Arvel for intimidation ?

It's not so much running him as a blocker as it is having coverage in case of a bump.

Idk. Might be terrible. It's just an idea I had that fell out if thinking how best to fly a low IN ship with an arc based support ability, alongside two higher IN aces who want to be shooting front arcs at range 3, when the support ship has a potent fixed front arc itself and a moveable weak arc. The answer to that was basically, put him in front with the turret arc facing rear.

I'm going to give it a go, at least. It's totally dependent on what the list on the other side of the table looks like, of course, and I wouldn't try it on anything with more than 4 ships. But I think it could have a place against similar three ace lists, or anything with a fat, large base turret in it.

But yeah, in all my other lists Intimidation Arvel makes an appearance. He looks like ridiculous fun. Just a shame I don't like how few points are left if you drop him in a Wedge and Kyle list. I could drop the torps on Wedge and squeeze in another X-Wing, I guess, but I really like those torps on him.

Kyle (perceptive moldy), Wedge, Garven, Intimidation Arvel is a list (two points left I think, gets some crackshot)

With Proton Wedge eating +9 points (7 with leftovers), you're one short of a blue escort, but still in the realm of Sabine Shuttle

Honestly, more I look at Sabine the more I think she's a steal at 38 points. Would probably include her before any 3-dice generic

Dash is also pretty good.