So I made this thread and forgot that I use these house rules for Conflict and Morality. I figured I'd post 'em here.

I got a lot of these from a specific online thing .

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STARTING MORALITY: Characters with a Morality score (and no Duty or Obligation) start with Morality 70. They may reduce their Morality in up to three ways, gaining benefits each time:

• -10 Morality: Gain 1000 credits.
• -10 Morality: Gain 5 EXP.
• -21 Morality: Gain 2500 credits.
• -21 Morality: Gain 10 EXP.
• -21 Morality: Gain 5 EXP and 1000 credits.

Note that taking the full allotment of three Morality Reduction options will reduce your Morality to the Dark Sider threshold, as will taking two of the bottom three options.

FORCE RATING AS A CHARACTERISTIC: You may purchase a Force Rating at character creation as if it were any other Characteristic: at a cost of the new rating x 10 in EXP. (If you allow characters with Force Rating 0 to buy up to Force Rating 1 without taking a Universal Specialization, I suggest that you reduce the cost for their first such Specialization by 10 EXP if they purchase it at character creation, as characters with FR 1 don't gain anything from those Specs.)

USING FORCE POINTS: When making a Force Power check of any kind, you do not have to spend a Destiny Point to use opposed Force Points. You still take Strain and/or Conflict as normal.

DRAWING ON THE DARK SIDE: If your character is aligned to the Light, whether they are a Light Side Paragon or not, you can declare, before making a check, that they feel strong emotions relevant to the situation at hand. If the GM decides that the emotions are relevant, and that the situation is appropriate, he can offer up to 2 bonus Force Points or Advantages, costing 1 Conflict each, or 1 bonus Success for 2 Conflict.

In addition, using any Force Power that would cause Wounds to living creatures levies at least 1 Conflict, unless the way in which you use it would already levy Conflict (such as Harm, Unleash, or the damaging use of Bind). The Conflict is gained each time you use it, or would benefit from it for Committed uses of the power in question. This includes, but is not limited to:

• Certain uses of Move (throwing or dropping living creatures)
• Certain uses of Influence ("Your friends want to kill you!")
• Certain uses of Misdirect (disguising an Imperial Officer as you to the Stormtroopers)
• The Sense power's attack-upgrading Control ability
• The Enhance power's Brawl-boosting Control ability
• The Enhance power's Brawn-increasing Control ability

MORALITY ADJUSTMENTS: After a session concludes, determine how much Conflict you've acquired this session and roll 1d10 and halve the result (rounding up). Reduce your Conflict by up to this amount, to a minimum of 0 Conflict. Once you have done this, roll a Simple (-) Discipline check. You may spend 1 Success or 2 Advantages to reduce your Conflict by 1, to a minimum of 0; you may spend a Triumph to halve the current amount of Conflict you have (two Triumphs reduce your Conflict to one-quarter, etc). if you reach 0 Conflict during this step, you may spend further Successes and Advantages on increasing your Morality on a 1-for-+1 basis each.

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These rules are designed to make it harder to remain a Light Sider, and easier to slide into the Dark Side. That is a major theme of Star Wars, after all, and while I did complain about Channel Agony in the above link, that's just my opinion.

Anyway, Please Examine And Critique Honestly.

Very interesting option for conflict. So after you have reduced conflict by the initial D10 roll and the Discipline check, the remaining discipline is subtracted from your Morality?

I'm a little concerned with the Force Rating as a Characteristic option. Do you have a maximum set for character creation? Do you allow a Force Sensitive character who already had Force Rating 1 purchase FR2 at character creation or is this just for non-Force sensitive careers?

I guess the next question is how do you handle Drawing to the Dark Side. If you have a character who has felt the pull to the dark side.

If your character is aligned to the Dark, do they reduce a session's Conflict by using powers to Heal or help others? I guess this could work for both Light and Dark aligned characters but what if they are at complete peace and calm with what they do which is what the Jedi strives for, do you offer bonus Force Points?

One of the problems I have with most Morality hacks is they attempt to fix a problem that isn't present. Becoming Paragon isn't that big a deal. It's a fancy word for Role-model. You get a little extra Strain and a D-point... I don't get why people think it's a problem.

What I do see a lot of is moaning about players getting paragon for not adventuring... Now, if that's an issue an easier house rule (that may be a rule-rule depending on your interpretation of the rulebook) is to just not apply conflict/Morality adjustment if the players don't do anything granting the opportunity to gain conflict. Spend the entire session laying out a plan and buying gear? OK, no need for Morality there.

If you check, even this guy

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

I got a lot of these from a specific online thing .

updated his blog to say his whole plan was rejected by his players, and he actually switched to something that's a lot closer to RAW anyway.

But lets take a look at what you've got....

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

STARTING MORALITY: Characters with a Morality score (and no Duty or Obligation) start with Morality 70. They may reduce their Morality in up to three ways, gaining benefits each time:

• -10 Morality: Gain 1000 credits.
• -10 Morality: Gain 5 EXP.
• -21 Morality: Gain 2500 credits.
• -21 Morality: Gain 10 EXP.
• -21 Morality: Gain 5 EXP and 1000 credits.

Note that taking the full allotme  nt of three Morality Reduction options will reduce your Morality to the Dark Sider threshold, as will taking two of the bottom three options.

Obvious problem? This encourages darkside play. If you want the most resources at start, you go dark. Pretty sure this is why RAW starts at 50 with bonus resources, so you aren't tempted mechanically to go one way or the other.

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

FORCE RATING AS A CHARACTERISTIC: You may purchase a Force Rating at character creation as if it were any other Characteristic: at a cost of the new rating x 10 in EXP. (If you allow characters with Force Rating 0 to buy up to Force Rating 1 without taking a Universal Specialization, I suggest that you reduce the cost for their first such Specialization by 10 EXP if they purchase it at character creation, as characters with FR 1 don't gain anything from those Specs.)

This has been presented many times. Do an FR Min/Max and you'll see why it's a bad idea.

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

USING FORCE POINTS: When making a Force Power check of any kind, you do not have to spend a Destiny Point to use opposed Force Points. You still take Strain and/or Conflict as normal.

The D-point and strain is the balance mechanic, the Conflict is narrative one. So if I don't care about going dark, or I'm playing a character without Morality, there's no reason to not spam the Force, aside from easily recovered Strain.

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

DRAWING ON THE DARK SIDE: If your character is aligned to the Light, whether they are a Light Side Paragon or not, you can declare, before making a check, that they feel strong emotions relevant to the situation at hand. If the GM decides that the emotions are relevant, and that the situation is appropriate, he can offer up to 2 bonus Force Points or Advantages, costing 1 Conflict each, or 1 bonus Success for 2 Conflict.

In addition, using any Force Power that would cause Wounds to living creatures levies at least 1 Conflict, unless the way in which you use it would already levy Conflict (such as Harm, Unleash, or the damaging use of Bind). The Conflict is gained each time you use it, or would benefit from it for Committed uses of the power in question. This includes, but is not limited to:

• Certain uses of Move (throwing or dropping living creatures)
• Certain uses of Influence ("Your friends want to kill you!")
• Certain uses of Misdirect (disguising an Imperial Officer as you to the Stormtroopers)
• The Sense power's attack-upgrading Control ability
• The Enhance power's Brawl-boosting Control ability
• The Enhance power's Brawn-increasing Control ability

Wow... so a lightsider using the darkside is essentially more powerful than a lightsider using the lightside or a darksider using the darkside? Again, doing this will make the force user noticeably more powerful in way that's only going to be fun for the force user.

13 hours ago, Machaeus said:

MORALITY ADJUSTMENTS: After a session concludes, determine how much Conflict you've acquired this session and roll 1d10 and halve the result (rounding up). Reduce your Conflict by up to this amount, to a minimum of 0 Conflict. Once you have done this, roll a Simple (-) Discipline check. You may spend 1 Success or 2 Advantages to reduce your Conflict by 1, to a minimum of 0; you may spend a Triumph to halve the current amount of Conflict you have (two Triumphs reduce your Conflict to one-quarter, etc). if you reach 0 Conflict during this step, you may spend further Successes and Advantages on increasing your Morality on a 1-for-+1 basis each.

Got it. Max out my FR and my Discipline and I can do whatever I want without falling to the Darkside.

I think an issue you're having is you're thinking like a GM. All these options probably aren't that bad if the player is going for a narrative result. Something like this would allow for a higher powered, but not totally unbalanced Jediesque character if I spread my XP out to try and get there, and played conflict as something bad.

The problem is, players don't always think like that. So your options can be easily abused. With this I can max out a few key skills and abilities and really do some insanely broken things with little risk. Seems fun for the first few sessions, but after that it gets old. Additionally, one of the strengths of this system is how Force users and non force users are fairly balanced, a problem both preceding systems never quite got a handle on. This puts you right back there. Why play an ARC Trooper or smuggler and be reduced to supporting cast when I can play a Jedi and solve all my problems by just using my telekinetic abilities to yank a star destroyer out of orbit and onto the head of my enemy?

What's the actual problem you're having with Morality/The Force that lead to this proposal? Maybe if we focus in we can find a better solution that's harder to abuse.

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

What's the actual problem you're having with Morality/The Force that lead to this proposal? Maybe if we focus in we can find a better solution that's harder to abuse.

Thank you for that dissection. Light's always dimmest at the base of the lighthouse, I guess.

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Before I go into my "actual problem I'm having," just want to point this out:

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

This has been presented many times. Do an FR Min/Max and you'll see why it's a bad idea.

I forgot that I put a starting limit of 3 on Force Rating. (And remember, all Characteristics max at 6. This would apply to FR too.)

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So, my issue, as you noticed, is that being a Light Sider should be a little hard to do. Being a Dark Sider should be easy. This is an old SW theme. (One they banged twenty-six ways to Sunday in TLJ and TFA but whatever.)

Anywho, you're absolutely right that the original d6 system was too harsh. I saw that instantly in the PDFs I saw of the system, PDFs made long before FFG began their reprint. (The d20 "boost mechanic" was something I wanted to go for above, by the by.)

On the other hand, the current system goes too far in the other direction, IMO. A random gain of 1d10 - Conflict gained Morality? That seems small, but trust me, it adds up rather quickly.

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Of course, I'd expect you to roleplay your character like a Dark Sider if you go Dark, or start that way. If you want to stay a Dark Sider, expect a visit from the Inquisitorius and either a quick and messy death or a quick Nemesis-ifying as you're inducted into their ranks.

Yeah, I'd go there if a player caused enough chaos - and as a Dark Sider, you're going to cause chaos. Think of it like a Mage in Chronicles of Darkness whose arrogance allows him to, out of habit, use magic to do minor things for him - and then a Sleeper walks in on accident, sees ten animated objects doing chores, and the resulting Paradox creates a localized black hole that ends up unpersoning half a city out of history, while the Guardians of the Veil just point at the mess and glare at everyone, as if to quietly say, " We fracking told you so, you lunatics, look at this mess that's so bad we couldn't even clean it up if we had to, and we don't have to only because that's how bad reality just got violated, how are we not all DEAD. "

EDIT: Hopefully I don't have to say this, but the Inquisitorius Recruitment Drive and the Unpersoning Hole are both extreme examples, and the latter is more intended to be a form of dark humor. Just so we're clear on that, because I know I miss obvious context a lot, and often what I think is obvious, isn't.

46 minutes ago, Machaeus said:

So, my issue, as you noticed, is that being a Light Sider should be a little hard to do. Being a Dark Sider should be easy. This is an old SW theme. (One they banged twenty-six ways to Sunday in TLJ and TFA but whatever.)

I agree that they did push this but you also have to remember that there were thousands of Jedi at one time that didn't have this issue. Probably easier to maintain your LS status when surrounded by other LS users.

The only issue I see with what you have is you have only swapped the coasting to LS with a coast to the DS.

Fair. Hmph, back to the drawing board I guess.

I'm personally going to be experimenting with only rolling morality at the end of the adventure, instead of the session. The theory being this gives more time for conflict to build up, and therefore is more likely to result in a slide rather than a rise for characters that are willing to risk conflict.

If you're finding your characters are rising too easily, the ST should just be a little more liberal with handing out conflict for any actions that could remotely be dark side ish. Especially over reliance on force powers when mundane methods would accomplish the same goal. Use the force to open a door? Conflict. (that single example should give you the idea I'm getting at)

@TenguGrib This works. Yoinking.

1 hour ago, TenguGrib said:

I'm personally going to be experimenting with only rolling morality at the end of the adventure, instead of the session. The theory being this gives more time for conflict to build up, and therefore is more likely to result in a slide rather than a rise for characters that are willing to risk conflict.

If you're finding your characters are rising too easily, the ST should just be a little more liberal with handing out conflict for any actions that could remotely be dark side ish. Especially over reliance on force powers when mundane methods would accomplish the same goal. Use the force to open a door? Conflict. (that single example should give you the idea I'm getting at)

I did similar but I found Session too long. So, keeping with the Movie/Book theme, I added Chapter. Encounter > Session > Chapter > Episode

I found doing it per "chapter" gave me a more balanced result. I also said that the auto-conflict of Conflict Talents only increased per chapter and if the talent is used.

2 hours ago, Machaeus said:

I forgot that I put a starting limit of 3 on Force Rating. (And remember, all Characteristics max at 6. This would apply to FR too.)

I'd still think this one through a bit more. FR is one of those things that seems not powerful based on the assumption that players aren't going to use black pips and accrue Conflict. Players almost always flip pips, and accrue conflict, because not doing so is pretty much hamstringing you. That's part of the reason the Morality deck is stacked toward the light, so they can use the force when they really need to without fear of suddenly going Dark. So when you toss a few extra FR at them, they get really powerful. And you're back to the old "The amazing Jedi and his loser nonforce using friends."

Try it out, roll it out, and talk with the players. Nothing makes sour grapes like handing the players a broken option that overpowers them and then taking it away when you realize what you've done.

So anyway... Morality:

I've found part of the solution is to reframe how you look at Morality, Duty, and Obligation. They aren't a solid play mechanic so much as a conduit for the Player to Speak to the GM. A way for the player to say "here's what I want to do in the campaign."

If you've got Obligation Debt, then you want to have a bounty hunter show up to collect, or Durka show up and say he really wants you to get him his money so he can afford to be CGed in as a Hutt in the Special Edition version of the campaign.

If you take Duty: Space Superiority the GM better darn well make sure there's some Starfighter Combat in the campaign (and probably get the AoR GM screen so the player can live to tell about it later).

So with Morality, there's a request for moral choices and challenges that will force the Player to Play the character.

If you've ever played the Bioware games you already kinda know what to do here. Present situations that give the players a moral choice, and award conflict based on it. Explain up front that Conflict and Morality aren't punishments but player options and that it's ok to not be the best person all the time. Even Yoda used black pips when the time game.

Some choices can be quick and simple:

Inquisitor Poodleplap is standing on the catwalk overlooking the hanger, lightsaber in hand. "So... 'Jedi'" he says, almost like the very word tastes foul, "I'm going to give you an opportunity... We can be allies. I can give you anything. Wealth, power, adventure... Just join me, become an Inquisitor...Let me train you." He says, going into a kind of monologue. As he's talking you see he's standing above a refueling line... one blaster shot...

If the player takes the bait, toss a little Conflict his way, and everyone get a laugh as the Inquisitor goes running off on fire. He'll be back, but this Encounter is over. Or... the player does *ahem* the right thing and there's a lightsaber duel the player may not be ready for at this part of the campaign...

Some Choices can be more complex:

Your player had an Emotional set of Compassion/Hate, and a backstory/motivation about slavery.

While doing stuff in the wild, they come across a crew of dirtbags with a slave or three. Preferably of the same species as the player. They aren't treating their slaves well, (obviously) and the player has a chance encounter available. Free the slaves. Now... buying them may be viable, but probably not. Of course they are out in the middle of nowhere... and if the players buy the slaves, or mind trick the slavers, or whatever, the slavers will just keep at it and go buy/capture more.

See now the player has to make a choice not just on obvious "oh what'll give me conflict" but "My character really probably would do something not so nice here."

Now.... It's not always easy to incorporate that, but also not every player will work it. Some will ALWAYS pick a good option even if it goes totally against character. And that's ok, but it's also something to talk with the players about. If the players are always always always going to be goodie goodies.... consider dumping Morality all together and look at Duty and Obligation instead. There's nothing wrong with that Clone War era Jedi, or Rebellion supporting Survivor Padawan getting Duty instead.

Question to everyone in the thread:

If +1 FR costs EXP equal to 20 x new Rating, rather than 10x, do you think that would be a better limiter? Just trying to think on it.

EDIT: Again, max of FR 3 at char creation.

Well Force Rating almost always costs 25 XP unless the tree is one of the few that has 2 entries for it and then it may cost 20 plus the cost or XP to reach those talents making the cheapest increase to Force Rating at 65XP for Pathfinder and averaging 100 for all other classes. So any outside purchase of FR needs to represent the challenge of learning to use the Force.

Pathfinder only takes 65, there are two specializations that costs 75 to reach FR, most are 95 or more with Sentry being most expensive at 125