I'm confused by the pricing of the various titles for the Firespray. Specifically, it seems like the Marauder title gives the strongest ability regardless of points, so it stands to reason that it would bethe most expensive. It turns it's actually the cheapest at just 3 points, while the Slave 1 and Andrasta titles are 5 and 6 points apiece.

So what's the deal here? Do other people feel the Marauder title is too cheap, or am I overrating the free rerolls and gunner slot access? Maybe the reload on Andrasta is really powerful, or the new and improved torpedoes make Slave 1 worth including.

You're overreacting. Yeah it's a decent title, but a conditional reroll is probably worth about 3 points in 2.0, and that's all it does for the three points. The gunner crew you then have to pay for, and that brings it in line with the other titles. Giving the Firespray reload is a solid addition that should cost a few points, it has some of the best bombing capability in the game. Also I think the ability to switch maneuvers on Slave I combined with white boost gives you ridiculous movement shenanigans.

Marauder is fine, it makes the spray viable

Other titles are ridiculously overcosted. Anas...whatever Emon uses is just obscenely expensive for a slot (useless unless you payore points) and white reload on a ship that can almost always shoot

It should be 1 point, and Slave no more than Marauder

Points costs in 2.0 appear to be almost entirely random, this is just another example.

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Points costs in 2.0 appear to be almost entirely random, this is just another example.

I haven't felt this way generally, most things seem to be priced appropriately. Force crew is expensive but very powerful, and they seem to have good reasoning for most of the points costs.

There was a giant pile of stuff to balance and and assign points to in 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if we were essentially in beta testing right now, with a whole new set of points dropping when the app does.

I don't know about Andrasta; that one seems way overpriced for what it does. But Slave-1 seems like it could be pretty strong, at least on I5 Boba Fett. It's a slightly restricted Seasoned Navigator, but with the added benefit of not increasing the difficulty of the maneuver, so you can use it to go from a turn in one direction to a turn in the other and still get your action, or to swap your 1 banks while still clearing stress. Could be seriously useful for staying on someone's tail with Fearless, or avoiding a block while still getting a shot thanks to your butt gun.

Still doesn't seem quite as useful as Marauder though, but that's mostly because of how strong the Scum gunners are. As much as I want to try out slippery Slave-1 shenanigans, running Han instead costs just two more points...

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Points costs in 2.0 appear to be almost entirely random, this is just another example.

Mind providing other examples?

I would say the jumpmaster seems wildly overcosted if only because it bares the jumpmaster name, which is a troubling precedent to set, but I would hardly say everything is “entirely” random.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

Mind providing other examples?

I would say the jumpmaster seems wildly overcosted if only because it bares the jumpmaster name, which is a troubling precedent to set, but I would hardly say everything is “entirely” random.

Don't bother. He won't.

I think some ships and upgrades are very badly priced, and there are doubts in my head about the good designers at FFG using the sciences to determine the costs.

They probably treated 2.0 as the biggest errata to X-Wing ever, in which they nerfed strong ships, and buffed weak ones. Not entirely random, but isn't exactly scientific either.

Also, a few f#ckups are included as well, like nerfing the advanced and keeping the costs the same.

There are indeed a few *******, but they're not arbitrary. They're in line with what was overpowered in 1st Ed

Ie, most large ships esp turrets and ESP the JM5k

Bombs (Ana w.e, SCURRG/havoc)

Hyper mobility (slave 1 qualifies imo)

Action independent mods (force)

Yeah, Andrasta seems too expensive. But I'd still use it with Azzameen.

Slave I, on the other hand... can't see much use for it. Certainly overcosted

Slave I is good in a literal vacuum. In the cluttered mess that is most x-wing games, it's very situational, especially on a bulky medium base.

Marauder title: While it is the cheapest, it requires the additional cost of a gunner to be good. It also does not add value to existing upgrades or reduce the need to "fly better."

Slave 1 title: This is expensive because it makes flying easier. It's training wheels for the medium base. (And it will be worthwhile if a cheap torpedo comes out, or an obstacle clearing torpedo_

Andrasta : The reload action will add value to upgrades throughout the game. It's correctly priced.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

There was a giant pile of stuff to balance and and assign points to in 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if we were essentially in beta testing right now, with a whole new set of points dropping when the app does.

Han gunner? 0-0-0? Yup.

I'll be trying Boba Fett with Slave 1 and a few different torpedoes. Part of me feels wrong using any title but the Slave 1 on Boba's ship

Yea as a huge firespray fan, I kind of have to agree.

The Andrasta title isn't bad if you want to go the bombing route. But otherwise Marauder is the easy choice by far. Cheaper than Slave 1 and has better use IMO.

I thought the original Slave 1 title was junk compared to almost all other ship titles in 1.0. Only good thing was it was free and allowed me to take LRS for a free TL to start each game.

Now it's the same ability, but also adding Imperial Boba's ability, which I thought was easily the worst of all the named firespray pilot abilities from both factions. And it's expensive too.

Maybe someone can get good use out of it, but I would never take it unless it goes down in price and/or marauder goes up in price so that Slave 1 is now the cheaper title of the two.

3 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Now  it'  s the same ability, but also adding Imperial Boba's ability, which I thought was easily the worst of all the named firespray pilot abilities from both factions. And it's expensive too. 

Not disagreeing with your other points, but I thought I’d remind you that 2.0 Slave I also let’s you swap around turn maneuvers, not just banks. Plus the firespray is medium base and has 1-turns now, so not nearly as lumbering as the 1.0 large base, and at I5 Boba gets to move after most of the other pilots in the game. It also pairs nicely with Boba’s ability, allowing you to pick the best spot for catching ships at R1 and makes it easier to avoid blockers.

The combination of these things make Slave I title an interesting choice. I’m not saying it’s the best choice (I haven’t played around with any of them yet so I can’t say), but it’s at least an interesting choice.

Slave 1, as with Navigator, is and has always been, a crutch.

Dial the right manoeuvre in, and you don't need it.

It's better to git gud than to pay points to obviate not doing so, because the people who DID git gud will pay those points for useful stuff and not fight at a handicap.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Slave 1, as with Navigator, is and has always been, a crutch.

Dial the right manoeuvre in, and you don't need it.

It's better to git gud than to pay points to obviate not doing so, because the people who DID git gud will pay those points for useful stuff and not fight at a handicap.

This is true. Unfortunately, like Luke gunner, Slave one is probably a card that has most use for newer players. So it's cool they can have Boba in slave one, just a shame we probably can't use that combo once we can predict and manuveur really well.

Same goes for Luke gunner.

Who doesn't want Luke on the team, but who will use him now.

14 hours ago, SOTL said:

Points costs in 2.0 appear to be almost entirely random, this is just another example.

For sure some prices need to be reassessed, but saying its random may be a little too much^^
I don't except the prices to be quite good before 2 or 3 updates.

Anyway, we see a will from FFG to make generics usable, and that's for the best IMO, even if they, for now, have been a little to far on some conservative prices (fat turrets, pricy aces).

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Slave 1, as with Navigator, is and has always been, a crutch.

Dial the right manoeuvre in, and you don't need it.

It's better to git gud than to pay points to obviate not doing so, because the people who DID git gud will pay those points for useful stuff and not fight at a handicap.

I understand your point.

But, I see another layer. The opponent of the slave 1 player.

One can never be sure where slave 1 will end up, since it can be decided on activation, where to go. Especially useful with Boba due to high ini. So if a block on slave 1 is wanted, forces have to be spread out wide.

Isn't just the possibility of using the slave 1 effect enough to cross the plans of the opponent? Or at least to give him a harder time guessing what the move of the firespray will be?

24 minutes ago, flooze said:

I understand your point.

But, I see another layer. The opponent of the slave 1 player.

One can never be sure where slave 1 will end up, since it can be decided on activation, where to go. Especially useful with Boba due to high ini. So if a block on slave 1 is wanted, forces have to be spread out wide.

Isn't just the possibility of using the slave 1 effect enough to cross the plans of the opponent? Or at least to give him a harder time guessing what the move of the firespray will be?

Hmm yes, vs blockers and swarms the Slave I title gets some value. But if the meta changes to Aces... eh

31 minutes ago, flooze said:

I understand your point.

But, I see another layer. The opponent of the slave 1 player.

One can never be sure where slave 1 will end up, since it can be decided on activation, where to go. Especially useful with Boba due to high ini. So if a block on slave 1 is wanted, forces have to be spread out wide.

Isn't just the possibility of using the slave 1 effect enough to cross the plans of the opponent? Or at least to give him a harder time guessing what the move of the firespray will be?

There's still usually going to be a right choice for them to make, and a good player will know what it is.

The ability to change turns as well actually improves it signficantly, because of how the firespray can cover the same space with both turns, the way it can't with banks.

Maybe it will be more significant, but I'd be shocked if you're not better off paying for mods (marauder) than paying for dial flex.

I think the Maurauder just feels cheap because of how stupid cheap Han is. Once his price goes up to a reasonable value then the other two titles with feel more in line with Maurauder.

I can kinda agree. Andrasta is pretty niche, but kinda looks pricey. Slave 1 is theoretically powerful, but I bet it doesn't work out in practice. Marauder's plain ability is fairly cost-effective dice modification in a low-modification edition. Meanwhile, although a 4-dice Torpedo would be nice, Firesprays already have decent attack values, and a Gunner slot has the potential to add something quite strong. Meanwhile, Scum is kinda the only faction with good Gunners so far.

With 1e Imperial Boba Fett (a weaker form of 2e Slave 1), the issue always felt to me that it just doesn't work out on table. Too many rocks and other ships and so forth for switching to frequently actually be good. It always seemed like it could work out on paper. High PS, action free, repositioning. Now that turns are included along with Banks, I could see it being better, but I think it's just an ability where the on-table geometry doesn't work out.