I'm still relatively new to the game and have a question about reaction timing.

Is it possible for Mitsu to use his ability on Mantras?

I'm not sure how the reaction timing works. Must a reaction be played immediately after the described event or can it be delayed? How long does a reaction window last?

In regards to the Mantras, since the Mantra's are a response to the opponents selection of a ring prior to the conflict action window does this mean that Mitsu's ability cannot be used to play Mantras from the discard pile.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

EDIT: The rules reference clarified this. After the prerequisite for the reaction occurs, the reaction windows opens and each player has the opportunity to play reactions (or interrupts) until both passes as in a normal action window. This means that Mitsu cannot play a mantra from the conflict discard since reaction window will be closed by the time he is able to trigger his ability.

The next question is can he still use his ability to put a mantra on the bottom of the conflict deck? or must a card be immediately playable in order to use the ability.

I'm not sure it is useful to do this, but it would be helpful to know in case a situation ever arises where I would want to do it.

I am right in that it cannot be used this way, just wrong as to the reason why

Putting it on the bottom of your deck does count as a change in game state. However, in the case of Mitsu he specifically says " If it is an event, put it on the bottom of your conflict deck instead of into your discard pile after resolving its effects. "; if you try to choose a Mantra and can't end up playing it you'll also be unable to put it on the bottom of your deck since "after resolving its effects" never happens.

Kyuden Isawa is more complicated since KI doesn't actually have you select which event you're playing until it resolves, and then you end up selecting the event only by playing it . This means that "Remove that event from the game" only knows which event to remove in relation to the event that got played; if you can't play an event then KI has no idea which one to remove and can't remove it.

You can't play an event with a reaction or interrupt with Togashi Mitsu or Kyūden Isawa because you don't have a valid trigger (step 1 below).

Quote

Initiating Abilities / Playing Cards

Whenever a player wishes to play a card or initiate a triggered ability, that player first declares his or her intent (and shows the card to be used, if necessary). There are two preliminary confirmations that must be made before the process may begin. These are:

1. Check play restrictions and verify the existence of eligible targets: can the card be played, or the ability initiated, at this time? If the play restrictions are not met, or there are no eligible targets for the ability, the process cannot proceed.
2. Determine the cost (or costs, if multiple costs are required) to play the card or initiate the ability. If it is established that the cost (taking modifiers into account) can be paid, proceed with the remaining steps of this sequence.

@Mirith Moving a card from the discard pile to the bottom of the appropriate deck (or removing it from the game) does count as a change of game state.

I'm wrong!

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:14 AM, rpokeefe said:

I'm still relatively new to the game and have a question about reaction timing.

Is it possible for Mitsu to use his ability on Mantras?

I'm not sure how the reaction timing works. Must a reaction be played immediately after the described event or can it be delayed? How long does a reaction window last?

In regards to the Mantras, since the Mantra's are a response to the opponents selection of a ring prior to the conflict action window does this mean that Mitsu's ability cannot be used to play Mantras from the discard pile.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

EDIT: The rules reference clarified this. After the prerequisite for the reaction occurs, the reaction windows opens and each player has the opportunity to play reactions (or interrupts) until both passes as in a normal action window. This means that Mitsu cannot play a mantra from the conflict discard since reaction window will be closed by the time he is able to trigger his ability.

The next question is can he still use his ability to put a mantra on the bottom of the conflict deck? or must a card be immediately playable in order to use the ability.

I'm not sure it is useful to do this, but it would be helpful to know in case a situation ever arises where I would want to do it.

Sadly, he cannot do either.

For Togashi Mitsu to use his ability, he must already be participating in the conflict. The reaction window for Mantras (so far) has been in response to your opponent's ring selection. From the RR, page 22:

Quote

In order to declare a conflict, the attacking player must:

• ◊◊ Declare the type and element of the conflict to be initiated. This is indicated by selecting a ring from the unclaimed ring pool (this ring is known as the contested ring, and defines the element of the conflict), and placing it on an opponent’s eligible unbroken province (this indicates which province is being attacked) with either the military side or the political side faceup (the faceup side of the contested ring defines the type of the conflict).
• If a player selects an unclaimed ring with fate on it to become the contested ring, that fate is moved from the ring to the attacking player’s fate pool.
• ◊◊ Declare which ready characters (under his or her control) are being committed as attackers. The attacking player may declare any number of eligible characters under his or her control as attackers. Slide these characters toward the center of the play area, away from the attacking player’s home area. At least one character must be declared as an attacker at this time in order to initiate a conflict. If any of the attackers have the covert keyword, the targets for covert are chosen at this time.

Each of the above items are considered to be performed simultaneously. If any of the above cannot be completed, the conflict cannot be initiated.

If the province being attacked is facedown, turn it faceup as soon as a conflict is successfully declared against it. This occurs before any reactions to the process of conflict declaration may be triggered.

The reaction window for Mantras is after the simultaneous selection of MIL/POL, Element, Province, Attackers. The window is before the province is turned faceup (if applicable) which is before declare defenders.

The reaction step remains the same if Togashi Tadakatsu is in play. His ability forces the choosing of the ring (Element) before initiating the other steps of the conflict. Those steps are still considered simultaneous even though the element is chosen before. FYI, Tadakatsu (or The Heretic, if you're me) is the way to force which mantras you can play. And when.

There is a further query about Togashi Mitsu with relation to Isawa Tadaka on a rules question forum:

Thanks for the great responses.

No Mitsu Mantra shenanigans for me.