In general: Would you put the Lambda rather outside or inside the formation? Personally I would rather put it on the inside. Making it easier to hard turn for the bombers (by covering more area with their arcs) and to have the possiblity to send in the Lambda as a blocker.

Imperial officers be like

On 8/24/2018 at 9:03 PM, Boom Owl said:

Questions:

• What happens next? Is the game basically over for the Rebel player by Round 4?
• Should/Could the rebel/imperial player have done something differently on approach? ( Many Things )
• Was Jendon the correct Target?
• Was Wedge the correct Target?
• Does one list have a clear advantage over the other going into this game?
• Is there "in game" counterplay involved in this matchup or do the bombers just win most of the time?
• What plainly obvious and significant weaknesses does the bomber list have that can be easily exploited? ( There are several )

In order

- I think the Imperials would have a 90% chance to win at that point. If it was on the kitchen table, I would scoop, but if it was a tournie try to play it out. I would expect for all of the bomber to k-turn, so I would plan around that, but they're just as likely to turn east. Knowing this, you have limited options with the X-Wings. Thane of course is going to 3 hard up north and end it with a boost due east to try and get out of range three of the bombers. Luke has a 50/50 chance of melting on the next turn and we just have to accept that. I would probably have him do the same move as Thane and run up North after Supernatural barrel-rolling up north first. Keep your foils closed and boost either straight or to the left if the bombers end up running south-east. From here, you'll have to have a long, hard game of running around the rocks and picking off the bombers one by one in order to try and reach for that 10% win.

- I would have built a tighter asteroid field and then deployed on the exact opposite side of it. I would have slow rolled and killed time to draw the bombers into the rocks; hanging back Thane to act as bait. From there I would read the other player and run Wedge and Luke off into separate directions so that they can move for a flank. Classic pincer maneuver.

- Never shoot at Jendon First; especially with X-Wings. All of your ships should be able to best him in a late game 1v1, so I would focus on thinning out the bombers. Remember, they are the teeth in the list.

- I would have actually targeted Luke here first due to the fact that both Luke and Wedge can arc dodge the bombers, but only one of these can die late game due to supernatural reflexes and force regen. Kill Luke with fire and then just slowly catch up to the other two X-Wings with a wide net formation and some blocks.

- Bombers are currently overpowered at their point cost and have a mathematical advantage over everything else in the game, save for Inferno Squad, which they may be tied with. Bombers have a natural advantage here solely due to the fact that they can bring a lot more bodies and upgrades to the table than just about any other list out there. I'll be proven correct when FFG knocks them up a few points in price.

- The in-game counter-play here is to make life as difficult for the bombers. They're ideal situation is to go straight at the opponent, in a box, and joust them off of the board. Position yourself in such a way to make this as difficult as possible for them. Split up, drag them through the rocks, whatever you have to do to make them break off of their formation and chase. Once their ranks are broken, it is easier to start coming in for flanking moves.

- As for weakness, I'd say the bombers are vulnerable to being blasted away before getting the chance to fire, are far less mobile than the X-Wings, and lose out in a range 1 joust. The Rebel player could separate his ships, draw a chaser/s, and then come back together to blast it out of the sky before it shoots with a few 3/4 dice attacks. Splitting up and regrouping to focus fire would basically be the big advantage that X-Wings over the bombers due to their initiatives and greater maneuverability.

3 hours ago, BDrafty said:

People have dismissed the rebel list, but I think I'd like it with a few tweaks. Put torps on Wedge and Luke, take SR off of Luke and re distribute the points, and run a VERY lean Thane.

But why even take Luke at that point? You pay the 8 point premium for him because you can equip force upgrades on him. I'm of the mindset that SR and Luke should be stapled together only because it actually allows for him to arc dodge, compared to wedge who can only flank. Luke + SR is worth the full 20 points that you have to pay for it. If not, he would be like 1.0 Kylo without advanced sensors; not worth the premium price you pay for him. Not to mention how well it combos with his ability to begin with.

5 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

But why even take Luke at that point? You pay the 8 point premium for him because you can equip force upgrades on him. I'm of the mindset that SR and Luke should be stapled together only because it actually allows for him to arc dodge, compared to wedge who can only flank. Luke + SR is worth the full 20 points that you have to pay for it. If not, he would be like 1.0 Kylo without advanced sensors; not worth the premium price you pay for him. Not to mention how well it combos with his ability to begin with.

I'm not sure I would say that it combos with his ability. I would say it pairs well with his ship (just like it does with the TIE advanced prototype). The reason for the good pairing is the fact that the ship can either do a boost or a barrelroll.

You take luke for his amazing ability; not for access to the force upgrade slot. I get that you can do some cool stuff with the force upgrades, but he's just a good all-around pilot. I'm doubtful he is going to be able to best the I6 arc-dodgers even with SR. It's a great trick, but it just doesn't beat what Fenn Rau and Soontir can do to you. If I were to staple anything to him it would be the torps. He has a soft focus with a lock when he can fire them, he doesn't care about the defensive draw-backs of not having a focus, and (at I5) he can get the lock on most people going into the first round of shooting.

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

@BDrafty @Bad Idea Comics

What don't you like about Super Natural Reflexes on Luke?

Are you concerned about paying 12 pts for it and not using it?

It's the 30 pts total that bugs me: the combo of supernat and torps. I feel like the list is trying to do two things: joust and dodge. Even a simple reduction to ion torps would save 6 pts for better droids. Supernat can be great on Luke, but then you're really focusing on him being an arc dodger, which pulls him out of the jouster role even further. That's not a bad thing mind you - I think Luke could be an excellent arc dodger. It just seems like 30 pts of upgrades, while it provides a few options for how to fly the squad, adds up to being a detractor in this case. There's not enough in this list to pull fire away from a flanker. People have already mentioned Biggs - he'd be a welcome addition and that would create a larger pool for droids to help the other ships stay alive after Biggs is gone. really though, Luke is a great candidate for supernatural reflexes, just with a more balanced list. It can too easily get outshot for a jousting list.

The player here made some errors in his placement and approach as well, so maybe this list is more effective than it seems on the surface. It even seems like turn 0 was handled poorly - the asteroid placement seems counterproductive to a good line for the X-wings.

Jumping on the end of this thread: I think it's useful to play out scenarios like this and test effectiveness of different squads, but the rebels can certainly muster a much stronger jousting list.

If you go all-out for damage (which I enjoy), try this:
Wedge: Proton Torpedoes
Cracken: Concussion Missiles, Swarm Tactics
Gray Bomber: Proton Torpedoes
Dutch Vander: Proton Torpedoes

This 198pt list has one enormous volley of torpedoes, and you better remove plenty of enemy threat because it doesn't have any area control or anything else to fall back on besides raw damage. On the joust you get a torp from wedge at In6, then cracken fires a concussion missile and lets dutch take a TL. Dutch uses his ability to let the bomber take a lock as well, and the bomber fires at in5 with swarm tactics, before dutch fires the final torp at in4.

If you prefer damage mitigation fair-ship style jousting, you definitely need biggs as others have said (and tbh the list above might work with biggs instead of wedge).