So we played another game this weekend, this time with no rules tweaking or changes. Things started out pretty good and even, but by the end of area 2 of the first base level the heroes had enough treasure, cash, and tokens to exhaust the silver treasure deck and be fully equiped with multiple potions.

While I cant remember exactly how each character was equiped entering area 3, most of them had amour 4 with an item that would negate at least one wound, as well as their potions and magic items that had healing effects. They also were equiped with weapons that were rolling at leat 6 to 8 attack dice ( including power dice , eg red/green/green/ylw+ 3 to 5 blacks ) and melee characters were capable of multiple attacks.

I dont need to tell you that this was completely overpowering. Monsters were basically unable to cause any dmg, and if they did it was immediately healed, and anything I spawned was dead the next turn. Even the boss mob and buddies at the end were not much of a fight and the experience was anti climatic. The heroes killed both red manticores before they had a chance to attack as well as dmg the named mob for 4 hits. The named mob got in one attack before he was dead the next turn. They didnt even both opening the gold chest as it was un-necessary to complete the level.

This left the players feeling like the game was too easy and not challenging, and we were glad to have the game end as it was clear after they re-equiped in town that they could rampage around unimpeded. So now we have had one game where it was too difficult, and one where it was too easy. I have read your suggestions and with this new experience my new thought is now not to change the rules, or game mechanics. I can see how not allowing characters to move diagnonally passed walls etc really hemmed the players in and made manuevering too difficult. However, the game diconnects players concern to keep their heroes safe when nothing can hurt them as they become over equiped. I think we will play one more game of the first level limiting treasure chests to one card per player per chest and take out all cache horde cards. Hopefully this will strike the balance I am looking for.

Thank you for all your advice.

If you want to fix the balance, stop playing the first quest!

Seriously, that's just a learning quest, and if the heroes have any idea how to play, they will not be challenged at all. Don't bother re-balancing the game on quest 1; move on to another quest.

mahkra said:

+100000000. Second quest is a much different beast than the first one.

Lowecore said:

To exhaust the silver treasure deck? As in, to draw every single card? After opening only one silver chest? And some of them also spent money on training so they could roll 5 black dice?

Can you go over the details of financing that? I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility, but it sounds suspicious...

Lowecore said:

Nothing attacks with red/green/green/yellow before gold level. Silver weapons in the base game all have exactly 3 dice, IIRC.

As others said, though, don't worry too much if the heroes streamroll the first quest. Other quests are harder.

I didn't write down the details so I am going from memory to the best of my ability.

The heroes had the fortunate case where they drew a copper chest for 2 copper treasures each, and a silver chest for 2 silver treasures each. When they were in townthey sold most of the copper treasures + original equipment + whatever silver treasures they didnt like and were able to exhaust the silver treasure deck. They did not buy any skills or training. When I said they dice they were rolling it was again from memory, so sorry if I got that wrong, but they mostly were attacking with 3 black dice form character cards + using fatigue for extra dice when they wanted to the maximum 5.

In any case, it was definately easy after re-equiping but maybe we should fast forward to dungeon 4 or 5. I'll take a peek.

and the reason why Ive played the first lvl so many times is I actually havent played it with my gaming group yet. I wanted to figure the game out first to make it an easier learning experience for them so I first played it solo, then with family, then last time with friends ( one from gaming group ). I'm going to get one more in before introducing it to the group. Each game we've used all 4 characters hero slots whether I was controlling all 4 or dividing them up between several people.

one silver chest, even if you get two draws per hero, is only 8 items max, not counting "get a potion and draw again" type cards.

there are a lot more than that many silver treasure cards.

also, since you sell treaure cards for half, you'd have to sell 4 copper treasures to buy 1 silver treasure.

I think they also sold 3 or 4 silver treasures back to the store which i then added to the store inventory, should I have added them back into the deck, wouldn't make sense as they would maybe draw the same card they just sold.

Im surprised this hasnt come up in someone elses game. I'd have to count but I think they're are only 15 silver treasures? 4 of which are draw again cards, 8 were given out, and I thought they bought about 6 others.

Ill get my facts straight on card amounts and post again in a few days regarding this.

Lowecore said:

DJitD pg4
180 Cards
24 Monster Reference Cards
36 Overlord Cards
12 Subterfuge Skill Cards
12 Fighting Skill Cards
12 Wizardry Skill Cards
24 Town Store Cards
22 Copper Treasure Cards
18 Silver Treasure Cards
16 Gold Treasure Cards
4 Relic Cards

The main thing is that most of us are used to much larger treasure decks with extra treasures from expansions added in.

Do take note though, that any time you sell anything at the shop, you only get half (round down) price back for it. So all the starting gear (300/hero) would only get you 600 cash - enough for 1 silver treasure, and selling all the bronze treasures from 1 chest at 2/hero would only net 1000, enough for 2 more silver treasures.
Anyway, thats by-the-by really.

The important hing, as others have noted, is that the first quest is supposed to be really easy for the heroes as they learn the game.
It is also rare to draw 4 heroes with 3 dice (although again, maybe that is influenced by more expansion heroes with mixed dice, I don't recall). Letting the heroes choose anyone is usually a bad idea, once people know how to play the game. OTOH, having them stuck with a single draw (RAW) can often create really weak parties, and leaves players feeling like they got screwed by luck at the beginning and could do nothing about it. A good balance between these options is to use the Advanced Campaign rule where each hero draws three hero cards and then can choose one of the three.

In general, the heroes are not at all balanced with each other, and neither are the skills. So you can play the same game exactly but have a very weak party or a very strong party depending on the heroes and skills drawn. Mostly you will get something in the middle, but not always.