How are medium (and large) ships aligning the 1 straight when performing barrel rolls from decloaking? Long edge or narrow edge?

I assume it's with the long edge (see "barrel roll" in the rules reference ), but I have a feeling the devs intended that you should use the narrow edge (since small ships use the 2 template instead).

It's in the Rules Reference; IIRC they use the 1 template narrow edge, but I've not checked in a while.

From the rrg p8

When a medium or large ship decloaks, it must choose one of the following effects:

1. Barrel roll using the 1^ template.

2. Boost using the 1^ template.

Aditionally on p5:

When a medium or large ship barrel rolls, substitute “long edge” for “narrow edge” in the above description.

As far as I can tell, they decloak using the long edge.

Although I did think they used the narrow edge too. Was that ever said somewhere?

I asked the judges at GenCon, and they said Medium and Large bases use the long edge, just like a normal barrel roll for those base types.

Think of it this way:

Large/Med base Decloak = Small base Barrel Roll/Boost.

So whereas the small base uses the 2 template to decloak right, left or forward and the long edge of the 1 for barrel rolls, Large/Med bases use the long edge of the 1 template to decloak right, left or forward and the narrow edge for barrel rolls.

19 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Think of it this way:

Large/Med base Decloak = Small base Barrel Roll/Boost.

So whereas the small base uses the 2 template to decloak right, left or forward and the long edge of the 1 for barrel rolls, Large/Med bases use the long edge of the 1 template to decloak right, left or forward and the narrow edge for barrel rolls.

This isn't quite correct. Barrel rolling with the long edge means you line up the long edge along the ship base, so you roll a short distance.

Large and medium bases decloak as if they are performing a barrel roll, which means they move in the way described in the rrg (p5) under barrel roll.

On 8/22/2018 at 1:53 PM, player2072913 said:

Pilots can barrel roll to move their ship laterally and adjust their position. When a small ship performs a [BR] action, it follows these steps:

1. Take the 1^ template.

2. Place the narrow edge of the template flush against the left or right side of the ship’s base. The template must be placed with the middle line of the template aligned with the hashmark on the side of the base.

3. Lift the ship off the play surface, then place the ship with the hashmark on the side of the base aligned to the front, middle, or back of the other narrow end of the template.

4. Return the template to the supply.

When a medium or large ship barrel rolls, substitute “long edge” for “narrow edge” in the above description.

(on mobile so apologies for bad formatting)

2 hours ago, player2072913 said:

This isn't quite correct. Barrel rolling with the long edge means you line up the long edge along the ship base, so you roll a short distance.

Large and medium bases decloak as if they are performing a barrel roll, which means they move in the way described in the rrg (p5) under barrel roll.

(on mobile so apologies for bad formatting)

I guess saying long edge and narrow edge depends on where you are standing when you look at it.

So what I said was true,

21 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Large/Med base Decloak = Small base Barrel Roll/Boost.

This isn't true.

Large/Med base Decloak = Large/Med base Barrel Roll/Boost.

So basically, as I understand it...

• When a Small Base ship de-cloaks, it performs its choice of a boost or barrel roll ( not an action ), but explicitly uses the 2-straight template instead of the 1-straight (unless you're Echo).
• When a Medium or Large Base ship de-cloaks, it performs a boost or barrel roll, using the 1-straight template, as it typically would do so (narrow edge against the base for a boost, long edge against the base for a barrel roll).

Right?

3 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

So basically, as I understand it...

• When a Small Base ship de-cloaks, it performs its choice of a boost or barrel roll ( not an action ), but explicitly uses the 2-straight template instead of the 1-straight (unless you're Echo).
• When a Medium or Large Base ship de-cloaks, it performs a boost or barrel roll, using the 1-straight template, as it typically would do so (narrow edge against the base for a boost, long edge against the base for a barrel roll).

Right?

That's how I understand it

22 hours ago, player2072913 said:

This isn't true.

Large/Med base Decloak = Large/Med base Barrel Roll/Boost.

Upon further review, I believe you are correct.

What should be the point is that there is a major change to decloack in 2.0. Decloacking is now a Barrel Roll / boost but not a Barrel Roll / boost action .
This means 2 things.

1. When you decloack you follow the rules for barrel rolling (or boosting), which covers what side of the template you are using according to the base size with the added clause to use the 2 straight template for small bases.

2. You can still perform a boost or barrel action in your activation phase.

That was the case in 1e as well...

8 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

That was the case in 1e as well...

Yup. As far as I see, there are only 2 "changes" to decloaking in second edition:

1. Added rules for decloaking for medium & large based ships (use standard barrel roll/boost rules, with only the 1-straight template)
2. The explicit timing has changed from the beginning of the activation phase (1st ed), to during the system phase (2nd ed). It's a mostly cosmetic change, but it does mean that it's happening concurrent with placement of devices (bombs and mines). Depending on who is "first player," that could mean someone could plant a proximity mine (or similar) directly in a ship's decloaking zone...