Best builds and support ships?

**** bumps a lot and jam has puny range

Solution, 1.) Force using upgrade and 2.) Composure

Vader 0-0-0 Vermeil is nasty

I don't know if I will period, with Jam being ruined.

As decoration until Jam is fixed.

Forget about Jam, it is OPAF in 1.0 and should die with it.

There are still plenty of uses for Reapers though. Here are some builds I'm messing with;

CienaV - Vizier w/ Ciena Ree, Tactical Officer - 57pts

Emperoph - Feroph w/ Elusive, Emperor Palpatine - 63pts

Vadermiel - Vermeil w/ Ruthless, Vader, 0-0-0 - 67pts (Fickles already on this one)

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

CienaV - Vizier w/ Composure, Ciena, Tactical Officer - 59pts

I'm not convinced by this one:

1. Vizier already has access to a white co-ordinate via his ability. I know you have to have white co-ordinate on your action bar to field Ceina Ree, but that means you're literally buying your tactical officer just as a tax for her, and if you do so is there much point to taking Vizier rather than a regular Scarif Base Pilot (or an Omicron Group Pilot who doesn't need the tac officer in the first place)
2. Vizier has no talent slot, so composure is illegal.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Emperoph - Feroph w/ Elusive, Emperor Palpatine - 63pts

Feroph's ability is powerful but really requires token denial to work. Just like Vermeil, I think he's best fielded with Vader (who essentially restores jam's in-arc range 2 effect).

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Vadermiel - Vermeil w/ Ruthless, Vader, 0-0-0 - 67pts (Fickles already on this one)

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Vader 0-0-0 Vermeil is nasty

Agreed. Vader/Vermeil hits like a brick outhouse - a theoretical perfect attack run against a lower initiative pilot sees you move up and jam, then at the start of the combat phase, receive a calculate token from BT-1 and inflict one automatic damage with vader, then drop a 4-dice attack with one focus-to-hit and one blank-or-focus-to-hit on a target with no focus or evade token.

plus it unlocks BT-1 as a gunner - who (from the perspective of someone looking at aileron squads of reapers and strikers) is a very cheap gunner with a very nasty kick in him.

For jamming the better reaper is scardiff defender.

As pure support ship or eventually blocker I like it with informant and Seasoned Navigator.

SN united to airleons and reaper's dial at speed 2 let you go quite everywhere, then jam , block and know where where that ship will be the next turn (in system phase).

If you pair it with tie phantom it coud be very usefull to decloack in the right position

Could be nightmare for enemy aces

Jam is fine in 2.0.

It’s now a situational control mechanics instead of the OP denial as it was in 1.0.

But that doesn’t mean it’s not strong in the right circumstances.

This is my “Retro Reaper Palp Aces” list:

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'm not convinced by this one:

1. Vizier already has access to a white co-ordinate via his ability. I know you have to have white co-ordinate on your action bar to field Ceina Ree, but that means you're literally buying your tactical officer just as a tax for her, and if you do so is there much point to taking Vizier rather than a regular Scarif Base Pilot (or an Omicron Group Pilot who doesn't need the tac officer in the first place)
2. Vizier has no talent slot, so composure is illegal.

I'd just like to preface this; this is purely what I'm messing around with. I don't agree with the 'You must play a ship this way to be successful' mentality so I will never push a certain build on anyone. I'm also still tweaking, I don't have enough 2.0 experience to be evaluating efficiencies yet.

The idea I have with the Tac Officer coordinate double up is so I can choose when I coordinate. This allows for greater range control when coordinating your friendlies. I can Vizier coordinate, and then either move into a red manoeuvre using it as a pseudo advanced sensors, or bug out with a 3 speed to where I know I would be out of coordinate range in my normal action step. With Tac Officer I can also conversely skip Vizier's ability trigger and dive into my friendlies coordinate range with a 3 speed and then coordinate in my normal action step without having to worry about stress. This is more important to me in 2.0 as the Reaper's dial is a bit more red than it is in 1.0. This combo set just allows a looser formation which I like with Strikers and other faster ships.

That is my mad theory behind the upgrade choices anyway. I also like the idea of Grand Inquisitor on Vizier too, as it kinda gets around his 'skip your action step' clause.

Good call on the talent slot. I've been using YASB and for some reason Vizier has a talent slot on it currently. No matter, take Composure off and its just cheaper.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Feroph's ability is powerful but really requires token denial to work. Just like Vermeil, I think he's best fielded with Vader (who essentially restores jam's in-arc range 2 effect).

I agree Feroph's ability is better with token denial, its not always going to be an option though. With token stacking gone are also going to be times where ships just don't take tokens. I think Vader is a solid option for all the Reapers. Vader is inherently a more aggressive tactic, and I like Feroph's defensive capability for keeping Palp on the board longer, hence this build.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed. Vader/Vermeil hits like a brick outhouse - a theoretical perfect attack run against a lower initiative pilot sees you move up and jam, then at the start of the combat phase, receive a calculate token from BT-1 and inflict one automatic damage with vader, then drop a 4-dice attack with one focus-to-hit and one blank-or-focus-to-hit on a target with no focus or evade token.

I do think this is a combo many will jump on. Its really strong.

40 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

The idea I have with the Tac Officer coordinate double up is so I can choose when I coordinate. This allows for greater range control when coordinating your friendlies. I can Vizier coordinate, and then either move into a red manoeuvre using it as a pseudo advanced sensors, or bug out with a 3 speed to where I know I would be out of coordinate range in my normal action step. With Tac Officer I can also conversely skip Vizier's ability trigger and dive into my friendlies coordinate range with a 3 speed and then coordinate in my normal action step without having to worry about stress. This is more important to me in 2.0 as the Reaper's dial is a bit more red than it is in 1.0. This combo set just allows a looser formation which I like with Strikers and other faster ships.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to push 'a specific build' either - it just didn't seem to make sense.

I get the flexibility in timing the trigger - I guess it'll be a matter of on-table experience (like most positioning based issues) whether the flexibility ends up being worth the cost.

42 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I agree Feroph's ability is better with token denial, its not always going to be an option though. With token stacking gone are also going to be times where ships just don't take tokens. I think Vader is a solid option for all the Reapers. Vader is inherently a more aggressive tactic, and I like Feroph's defensive capability for keeping Palp on the board longer, hence this build.

Fair enough. As a ride for the Emperor, it'll probably be doing its best to stay the heck away from the fighting, so you should get two green dice a lot of the time - where elusive and Feroph's ability can both trigger. It'll mostly depend what it ends up being fielded with.

43 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I do think this is a combo many will jump on. Its really strong.

Plus, it's also on the highest initiative Reaper pilot. Whilst - I hope - aggressively pricing high initiative aces in second edition will make the "If It Has Nicht Got PS 10 It Iz Unplayable!!1!!1" crowd.....shut the [censored] up for once, at a fundamental level moving last with ailerons and swinging first with a massive knobbly stick like that is worth paying for, because it stops the reaper being a 'support ship' and turns it into a relatively unmanouvrable super-heavy fighter that just can play support ship if it really wants to.

Jam is pretty decent in 2.0. It was so busted in 1.0 that I’m glad they toned it down.

But it always feels to me like a scariff defender is just loads better. He blocks. He always gets his jam action. If you just want a cheap control piece there’s lots of cheap crew options. But then I look at other options for that price and think... DEATHRAIN.

Cheap Vizier support, or 70-odd points of Vermeil with Vader, ISB or Freelance Slicer, Composure.

34 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fair enough. I'm not trying to push 'a specific build' either - it just didn't seem to make sense.

I get the flexibility in timing the trigger - I guess it'll be a matter of on-table experience (like most positioning based issues) whether the flexibility ends up being worth the cost.

Yeah that's cool. The OP said 'best builds' and I was just saying these are my musings, not necessarily what I consider 'the best' because I think that concept is super subjective.

That's it, whether having a pure coordinate bus is worth it or not, I'll have to see. I just like the idea of being able to coordinate and Ciena a ship into a completely different facing and make some janky moves across the board. Especially with ships like higher initiative Strikers and Protos.

34 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fair enough. As a ride for the Emperor, it'll probably be doing its best to stay the heck away from the fighting, so you should get two green dice a lot of the time - where elusive and Feroph's ability can both trigger. It'll mostly depend what it ends up being fielded with.

Yeah that was my thinking. I was considering Whisper and another ace. A cheap Grand Inquisitor fits, or Soontir etc. not sure on the other ace.

34 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Plus, it's also on the highest initiative Reaper pilot. Whilst - I hope - aggressively pricing high initiative aces in second edition will make the "If It Has Nicht Got PS 10 It Iz Unplayable!!1!!1" crowd.....shut the [censored] up for once, at a fundamental level moving last with ailerons and swinging first with a massive knobbly stick like that is worth paying for, because it stops the reaper being a 'support ship' and turns it into a relatively unmanouvrable super-heavy fighter that just can play support ship if it really wants to.

I agree he's already a more offensive pilot so coupling him with the enhanced tech of Vader and 0-0-0 makes him a target man your opponent doesn't really want to engage.

Given its propensity at going ZOOM ZOOM, the reaper is also probably the best Palp house

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given its propensity at going ZOOM ZOOM, the reaper is also probably the best Palp house

I would agree. The Lambda is probably better when being used with co-ordinate or 'centre of-a-swarm' officers like tarkin or Sloane, but since the emperor wants to avoid the fight in the first place....

Guys, there are degrees...

1.0 jam was broken, but that doesn't mean 2.0 jam is all good now, because it was nerfed.

Nobody said they want 1.0 jam back...

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given its propensity at going ZOOM ZOOM, the reaper is also probably the best Palp house

Is palp worth his own shuttle anymore? The inability to change blanks is a HUGE nerf to him.

14 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Is palp worth his own shuttle anymore? The inability to change blanks is a HUGE nerf to him.

Correct, but force users like Grand Inquisitor will eat through his Force charges fast with Supernatural Reflexes and his ability, so giving him another source of force is probably very good for him at least.

10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

1. [...]
2. Vizier has no talent slot, so composure is illegal.

This is correct. Personally, I'd been mistaken on this, because YASB has 2e Vizier listed with a Talent slot.

It's a shame; Vizier would be a great home for Intimidation.

31 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Is palp worth his own shuttle anymore? The inability to change blanks is a HUGE nerf to him.

6ish 1st editition points points for a global mini-expertise that works on defense?

Tentative yes

Hilariously, Palp is one of the cheapest force crew upgrades

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

6ish 1st editition points points for a global mini-expertise that works on defense?

Tentative yes

Hilariously, Palp is one of the cheapest force crew upgrades

Sure he isn’t expensive himself, but you also have to buy a Reaper or lambda and give up both crew slots for him. That’s what I’m not sold on yet.

Wouldn't put much else on a scariff base pilot

54 points ain't bad at all

New Squadron

(41) Scarif Base Pilot
(13) Emperor Palpatine
Points 54

(36) Lieutenant Kestal
(6) Barrage Rockets
(1) Ruthless
(6) Ion Cannon Turret
Points 49

(36) Captain Jonus
(6) Barrage Rockets
(3) Elusive
Points 45

(34) Major Rhymer
(6) Barrage Rockets
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(3) Elusive
Points 49

Total points: 197

26 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

6ish 1st editition points points for a global mini-expertise that works on defense?

Tentative yes

Hilariously, Palp is one of the cheapest force crew upgrades

There are many many ways to modify focus results. Palp isn't bad, but what he does is not unique anymore, hardly justifying the cost of a full other ship.

I think that's my biggest problem with 2.0 so far... Too many upgrades and abilities grant the same result on different slots.

I'd be happier with a more expensive, but better palp. He should be the most expensive crew in the game.

There aren't that many ways to get a focus result short of getting focus

Palp is great (in theory) because you don't have to do something dumb like putting Fifth Bro and his MASSIVE "SHOOT ME!!!!!!!!" sign on the 5 health, 2 agility Kestal

Or on any gunner ship too fragile to carry him...which is ALL of them

And if the enemy shoots Palp, they're shooting an I 1 scrub and not your rocket bearing badasses

41 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

There aren't that many ways to get a focus result short of getting focus

Palp is great (in theory) because you don't have to do something dumb like putting Fifth Bro and his MASSIVE "SHOOT ME!!!!!!!!" sign on the 5 health, 2 agility Kestal

Or on any gunner ship too fragile to carry him...which is ALL of them

And if the enemy shoots Palp, they're shooting an I 1 scrub and not your rocket bearing badasses

Focus is the most common linked action element.

Most mods that used to change blanks now only change focuses.

Force tokens naturally do that.

Kestal is bad for any gunner because she dies like a wimp. Imps need some cheap gunner options, sth generic to make them stand out.