I suspect most ( or all ) ninja schools other than the Infiltrator or Actor will be a subsequent release. Regardless, I seriously doubt the Scorpion will get more than one of the two in the Core. It makes the most sense. I assume Infiltrator based on the beta doc and the BB. Any included ninjutsu techniques will be cursory and necessarily limited in the Core, so as to reserve the meat for the aforementioned subsequent release.

If it were me designing this, I'd probably only have 1-2 Ninjutsu techniques per rank, things that would be universally useful to all shinobi ( 2 ninjutsu techniques at each rank of 1-2, 1 each at 3-5 - universal things like stealth, misdirection, assassination techniques, etc... ). The Infiltrator would be able to buy generic Kata; the Actor, generic Shuji and so on. Indeed, you could fake a Harrier or a Stalker by giving them an iconic school ability and then allowing them to purchase Ninjutsu and some Kata.

The subsequent book should cover things like specialized fighting styles, weapons and tools, gaijin pepper, additional 'generic' Ninjutsu techniques, ninja magic, shadow brands, Kolat, new schools and so on.

6 minutes ago, Wyrmdog said:

I suspect most ( or all ) ninja schools other than the Infiltrator or Actor will be a subsequent release. Regardless, I seriously doubt the Scorpion will get more than one of the two in the Core. It makes the most sense. I assume Infiltrator based on the beta doc and the BB. Any included ninjutsu techniques will be cursory and necessarily limited in the Core, so as to reserve the meat for the aforementioned subsequent release.

If it were me designing this, I'd probably only have 1-2 Ninjutsu techniques per rank, things that would be universally useful to all shinobi ( 2 ninjutsu techniques at each rank of 1-2, 1 each at 3-5 - universal things like stealth, misdirection, assassination techniques, etc... ). The Infiltrator would be able to buy generic Kata; the Actor, generic Shuji and so on. Indeed, you could fake a Harrier or a Stalker by giving them an iconic school ability and then allowing them to purchase Ninjutsu and some Kata.

The subsequent book should cover things like specialized fighting styles, weapons and tools, gaijin pepper, additional 'generic' Ninjutsu techniques, ninja magic, shadow brands, Kolat, new schools and so on.

I have a Lion player that is very excited for the Ninjutsu category, because he wanted to play a character from Honor's Sacrifice Dojo. I'm hoping that there would be a way to let him take a couple Ninjutsu techs instead of Shuji or whatever else Ikoma Bard normally get access to.

It's worth noting that prior games from FFG have playtested some items that were not in the resultant core. In all three FFG SW cores, the beta had ships, vehicles, and opponents that were not in the core book, but showed up in later supplements in the line. EG: The Ghtroc 720.

Historically, with FFG: Inclusion in the beta is no guarantee of being in the released core.

Random musing on this, that perhaps we can look at what they are doing in the LCG for ideas of initial schools? Mainly via the more relevant keywords (Ignoring, Bushi, Courtier and Shugenja, which I should hope at least one of each is included for each clan).

Crab: Berserker, Engineer, Scout

Crane: Duelist, Artisan

Dragon: Monk, Tattooed, Duelist

Lion: Commander

Phoenix: Scholar, Monk, Yojimbo

Scorpion: Shinobi, Yojimbo

Unicorn: Scout, Cavalry?

I would imagine that they would want all 7 clans to get 1 Bushi school, 1 Shugenja school, 1 Courtier school since those 3 categories remain the strongest consistent concepts, and one additional school that either doesn't fit neatly into any of those categories (ninja, monk, etc.) or doubles down on whatever the clan's strongest flavor is meant to be.

If it matches exactly what was in the 4th edition book without the Mantis Clan (well, maybe THE Mantis Clan, just not all the schools and families added when it was promoted to a Great Clan), the Spider Clan or any of the other Minor Clans (since none besides Mantis have technically been fully introduced into the setting beyond locations on a map).

Even if one includes the Mantis bushi, Seppun bushi, Otomo Courtier and Miya either Courtier or Shugenja (the core set made Miya the Imperial shugenja, but the only named Miya character is a courtier), that would make for 32 schools. Which would be "More than 30" but not enough that they would bump up their marketing blurb up to "More than 35".

13 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Even if one includes the Mantis bushi, Seppun bushi, Otomo Courtier and Miya either Courtier or Shugenja (the core set made Miya the Imperial shugenja, but the only named Miya character is a courtier), that would make for 32 schools. Which would be "More than 30" but not enough that they would bump up their marketing blurb up to "More than 35".

Miya Shugenja?

I'm super intrigued. Which core set had a Miya Shugenja? I started playing in 3rd, and don't remember that. What was their technique?

CoreSet of the FFG Card Game had a Miya Mystic character - a neutral, nameless (so more of an archetype than a single person) imperial Shugenja who could sacrifice itself to destroy an attachment of the enemy.

2 minutes ago, WHW said:

CoreSet of the FFG Card Game had a Miya Mystic character - a neutral, nameless (so more of an archetype than a single person) imperial Shugenja who could sacrifice itself to destroy an attachment of the enemy.

>_> ...

I knew he meant card game...

So if we extrapolate a technique for the Miya Shugenja School: When the PC is struck in combat, make a TN1 Government (Void) check. If successful, PC dies and the weapon used to strike him or her is destroyed.

Love it! Get me a homebrew thread. ( )

It doesn't look like the families nor schools are going to be so overly complex as to make homebrewing terribly difficult.

So even if your favorite thing from old L5R isn't in the edition, it probably won't take the community more than a day to put something workable together.

I am sure there will be several competing versions of the Mantis Clan and Spider Clan schools within the first few weeks for those who still want those in their setting, and I imagine someone will eventually get around to converting all of the Minor Clan schools found in 4E sooner or later.

I have to admit to already working on a Dragonfly shugenja school... More shuji in the lesson plan than the Phoenix have.

I'm surprised I haven't seen homebrew Hare clan already. I personally hope we get two books similar to 4th ed, one dedicated to the Great Clans and to the Minor. Sparrow clan unite!

1 hour ago, General Zod said:

I'm surprised I haven't seen homebrew Hare clan already. I personally hope we get two books similar to 4th ed, one dedicated to the Great Clans and to the Minor. Sparrow clan unite!

This.

Oh man, I wish that this new Canon could include a few of the Minor Clans who where part of the old Canon, like the Fireflly, Salamander and Tanuki...

7 minutes ago, Nheko said:

This.

Oh man, I wish that this new Canon could include a few of the Minor Clans who where part of the old Canon, like the Fireflly, Salamander and Tanuki...

Salamander? I haven't seen this one. Please advise.

8 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Salamander? I haven't seen this one. Please advise.

All of those three were only published in the very last 4ed book, which was never even hardcopy - Imperial Archives. They are 3 of about 6 Minor Clans that were described as being founded and destroyed before the 'modern' era.

The Salamander were the result of some sort of Phoenix grudge match, IIRC, and a political mistake. Their task was to research unusual magical phenomena and research new invocations, and had specialisations in Water and Fire spells. The Clan had no lands of their own, but traveled the broad rivers of Rokugan in colourful riverboats, following rumours of shugenja.

I thought the Tanuki came from the Blue Tanuki Inn or whatever, which was from a regional group working really hard to get them included in the game?

2 hours ago, Mirith said:

I thought the Tanuki came from the Blue Tanuki Inn or whatever, which was from a regional group working really hard to get them included in the game?

Here you go: Tanuki Clan

The book referencing the Lost Minor Clans is The Imperial Archives, a very good read for the fluff. It didn’t have their schools, though.

7 hours ago, Nheko said:

Here you go: Tanuki Clan

The book referencing the Lost Minor Clans is The Imperial Archives, a very good read for the fluff. It didn’t have their schools, though.

The schools were made available later, by the authors of the Clans, who had written them.

I forget where that is now, but have the mechanics noted somewhere if people are interested.

2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

The schools were made available later, by the authors of the Clans, who had written them.

I forget where that is now, but have the mechanics noted somewhere if people are interested.

They were written by Daigotsu Max, the author if I recall correctly, and captured at the end of the Court of the Minor Clans by Droid Scotty.

15 hours ago, General Zod said:

I'm surprised I haven't seen homebrew Hare clan already. I personally hope we get two books similar to 4th ed, one dedicated to the Great Clans and to the Minor. Sparrow clan unite!

I suspect part of it is that folks were waiting for the full rules before they started doing any serious kitbashing.

As a long-time fan of the Hare (by far my favorite of all the Clans, Great and Minor), I do hope they get to make an appearance in the game, and that FFG doesn't go the route AEG did of "If you're not a Great Clan, then your clan's school is going to be subpar by default."

While the original reason of the most Minor Clans not having had centuries to "perfect" their respective schools was acceptable at the start of the game's life, that quickly fell short when the Great Clans got brand new schools with hardly a decade's worth of 'history' in their creation that were just as good as their "tried and true" schools.

I was able to see the full list earlier today:

" Crab: Hida Defender (Bushi), Hiruma Scout (Bushi, Shinobi), Kaiu Engineer (Artisan, Bushi), Kuni Purifier (Shugenja, Bushi), Yasuki Merchant (Courtier)
Crane: Asahina Artificier (Shugenja, Artisan), Daidoji Iron Warrior (Bushi), Doji Diplomat (Courtier), Kakita Duelist (Bushi, Artisan)
Dragon: Agasha Mystic (Shugenja), Kitsuki Investigator (Courtier, Bushi), Mirumoto Two-Heavens Adept (Bushi), Togashi Tattooed Monk (Monk)
Lion: Akodo Commander (Bushi), Ikoma Bard (Courtier), Kitsuki Medium (Shugenja), Matsu Berserker (Bushi)
Phoenix: Asako Loremaster (Courtier), Isawa Elementalist (Shugenja), Shiba Guardian (Bushi, Courtier), Kaito Shrine Keeper (Monk)
Scorpion: Bayushi Manipulator (Courtier), Shosuro Infiltrator (Shinobi, Courtier), Soshi Illusionist (Shugenja, Courtier, Shinobi), Yogo Wardmaster (Shugenja)
Unicorn: Ide Trader (Courtier), Iuchi Meishodo Master (Shugenja, Artisan), Moto Conqueror (Bushi), Shinjo Outrider (Bushi, Courtier), Utaku Battle Maiden (Bushi)
Non-clan: Wordly Ronin (Bushi, Courtier)"

18 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I was able to see the full list earlier today:

" Crab: Hida Defender (Bushi), Hiruma Scout (Bushi, Shinobi), Kaiu Engineer (Artisan, Bushi), Kuni Purifier (Shugenja, Bushi), Yasuki Merchant (Courtier)
Crane: Asahina Artificier (Shugenja, Artisan), Daidoji Iron Warrior (Bushi), Doji Diplomat (Courtier), Kakita Duelist (Bushi, Artisan)
Dragon: Agasha Mystic (Shugenja), Kitsuki Investigator (Courtier, Bushi), Mirumoto Two-Heavens Adept (Bushi), Togashi Tattooed Monk (Monk)
Lion: Akodo Commander (Bushi), Ikoma Bard (Courtier), Kitsuki Medium (Shugenja), Matsu Berserker (Bushi)
Phoenix: Asako Loremaster (Courtier), Isawa Elementalist (Shugenja), Shiba Guardian (Bushi, Courtier), Kaito Shrine Keeper (Monk)
Scorpion: Bayushi Manipulator (Courtier), Shosuro Infiltrator (Shinobi, Courtier), Soshi Illusionist (Shugenja, Courtier, Shinobi), Yogo Wardmaster (Shugenja)
Unicorn: Ide Trader (Courtier), Iuchi Meishodo Master (Shugenja, Artisan), Moto Conqueror (Bushi), Shinjo Outrider (Bushi, Courtier), Utaku Battle Maiden (Bushi)
Non-clan: Wordly Ronin (Bushi, Courtier)"

You got the book early?

6 minutes ago, ElSuave said:

You got the book early?

Honestly, I am shocked that the entire thing has not yet been spoiled. It will be on shelves this Thursday. This means it is already at warehouses to be sent to Amazon pre-orders and game stores, which means that if you are a distributor? You have your copy in hand right now.

And that makes 31 schools, with 1 for each Great Clan major family and 1 for Ronin. And yes, Scorpion wound up with no Bushi school, and more Shugenja schools than the Phoenix and more Courtier schools than the Crane.

[#trolllogic]L5R: Scorpion Edition, maybe?[/trolling]

31 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Mirumoto Two-Heavens Adept (Bushi)

I want to know what this is.

5 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

And yes, Scorpion wound up with no Bushi school, and more Shugenja schools than the Phoenix and more Courtier schools than the Crane.

This is just odd, and irrationally upsets me. The Scorpion bushi school was always my favorite, in every edition.

6 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I want to know what this is.

A translation of the word "Niten", from the Japanese niten ichi-ryu or "the school of strategy of two heavens as one". In other words, it is about bringing two weapons to bear on a singular goal. Or, more simply, Mirumoto dual wielding.