How about using Redline with the bare minimum?

By using only a Proton Torpedo, Redline will cost 51 points and you could separate him from the rest of the squad, creating a manace one can't ignore.

51 point redline is a blockable, two-shot wonder that has to then waste time reloading

probably be better off with a flanking barrage jonus, even by himself (48 points) or an Adv proton torp + barrage Rhymer (48 points)

Barrage + adv torp Redline is 56 points. Hits hard, but competes with the consistency of juke whisper

This seems fun..

27 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

This seems fun..

Whips and Chains (200)

"Redline" — TIE Punisher	44
Fire-Control System	3
Proton Torpedoes	9
Proton Bombs	5
Seismic Charges	3
Ship Total: 64
"Whisper" — TIE Phantom	52
Juke	4
Fire-Control System	3
Director Krennic	5
Stealth Device	*
Ship Total: 70
"Deathrain" — TIE Punisher	42
Fire-Control System	3
Cluster Missiles	5
Concussion Missiles	6
Skilled Bombardier	2
Proton Bombs	5
Seismic Charges	3
Ship Total: 66

Redline gets very little value from FCS as he has no trouble getting new locks to spend. Deathrain can pick them up pretty easy as well. Trade FCS on both Punishers for TS.

Krennic only works on primary attacks, and if you're using a primary on a Punisher you have already failed. Drop Krennic and FCS for Adv Sens.

One thing that has always been missing in these discussions is more than just lists. This is not the end of 1.0 and just throwing list out there doesn't really do a lot. Haow one flies these ships is more important than in the recent past.

I have seen Redline flown in the second rank with a group of Tie Interceptors (with Stealth Devices). The Punisher sliw rolled the middle while Interceptors flanked on one side. Depending on which you went for my opponent could swing in easily to support the other. It was pretty effective as all of us were still bumbling a bit with new lists. It also didn't help that my dice were cold while his were hot (all night).

There was one point I Boosted in to block the Punisher, but it did a 0 stop! Left me hanging at R1 without a focus. Main guns took out 2 hull!

I also saw the Punisher use its Boost and TL to jump a lot farther than expected to put the hurt on an unexpected target. Rebels tried to use a U-wing as bait while the main force flanked. It backfired when the Imps were a lot faster than expected. Boost with a Medium base jumps you 3 base lengths forward.

Punishers in general should have TrajSim since both the named pilots can very easily get a targetlock anyway.
The only exception would be Redline w/ Adv Sensors, since his ability is not a free action he ignores the one action rule. Very situational though at the cost of no bomb-lobbing

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Redline gets very little value from FCS as he has no trouble getting new locks to spend. Deathrain can pick them up pretty easy as well. Trade FCS on both Punishers for TS.

Krennic only works on primary attacks, and if you're using a primary on a Punisher you have already failed. Drop Krennic and FCS for Adv Sens.

I think there is some cost benefit to not having to spend a target lock, even if they're easy to pick up. Being able to do a red maneuver while maintaining TL and still having dice mods, or maintaining at TL and pumping a reload seem pretty beneficial to me. We'll see.

I'm mostly using Krennic to give Whisper a shield and access to her Target Lock (which lets her use FCS).

Krennic doesnt give a shield in 2.0
Cannot assign optimized prototype to the ship Krennic is on
Can only spend a hit/crit/eye and it has to be on a ship the Krennic user has locked.

Krennic is bad in 2.0.

15 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Krennic doesnt give a shield in 2.0
Cannot assign optimized prototype to the ship Krennic is on
Can only spend a hit/crit/eye and it has to be on a ship the Krennic user has locked.

Krennic is bad in 2.0.

He's still 5 points to give a white TL action to the ship he's on, right?

That yes

26 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Krennic doesnt give a shield in 2.0
Cannot assign optimized prototype to the ship Krennic is on
Can only spend a hit/crit/eye and it has to be on a ship the Krennic user has locked.

Krennic is bad in 2.0.

I think you are under estimating the value of the Lock he grants. It’s not Krennic that is bad, it’s the Optimised Prototype that is situational.

Of the 4 Empire crew ships only one of them has a Lock action.

Krennic isn’t bad. He’s fair. Your 1.0 bias where Krennic is borderline broken are taking over here.

Targeting Computer is a 2pt mod in 1.0 that never, ever got used.
How is 5pts in a more valuable slot suddenly a good pick?

Also i havnt even played 1.0 since Krennic showed up. Yes, hes broken as balls in 1.0, but he got both his balls clipped in 2.0 imo. Strictly the requirement of OP targeting the same thing Krennic has locked to get any benefit being the problem, removing the +1shield and spendin blanks is fine.

15 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Targeting Computer is a 2pt mod in 1.0 that never, ever got used.
How is 5pts in a more valuable slot suddenly a good pick?

Also i havnt even played 1.0 since Krennic showed up. Yes, hes broken as balls in 1.0, but he got both his balls clipped in 2.0 imo. Strictly the requirement of OP targeting the same thing Krennic has locked to get any benefit being the problem, removing the +1shield and spendin blanks is fine.

Well TC got used for a while on Soontir. There is a point in the game where 1.0 flipped to passive mods so activated mods became less useful. Almost all the top tier squads are filled with ships that actually have the Lock action. The Reaper is one of the few ships recently that didn’t have it and thrived anyway.

2.0 is a different beast and if you have a ship like Whisper that can arc dodge and take efficient shots then enabling her is probably worth 5pts.

Sure there are other builds. Bare bones Whisper or just Whisper with Juke is pretty good too. Whisper with Vader or Sloane is strong. There is lots you can do.

As for the Optimised Prototype being nerfed. It’s not really a big deal. You are paying 1pt for the ability over the Lock action you gain. Even if you strip 1 Shield it has probably paid for itself and you should do more than that. Luckily it is also useful against unshielded targets yet.

I definitely haven’t regretted using Krennic so far. He has been useful and fun.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Punishers. We can chat Whisper and Krennic somewhere else.

Shamefully havnt tried generic Punishers yet (but zipping around in that monster and putting Soontir fel to shame is just so fun!)

Cutlass w/ Barrage Rockets trajectory protons with ablative is 54 points. Bit pricey, almost whisper in cost.

Still, fits two with barrage Jonus + Barrage & ICT & Ruthless Kestal. It's kinda funny when your lynchpin synergy ship is cheaper than everyone else

Kinda worried flying it will convince me to buy another punisher

36 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Shamefully havnt tried generic Punishers yet (but zipping around in that monster and putting Soontir fel to shame is just so fun!)

Cutlass w/ Barrage Rockets trajectory protons with ablative is 54 points. Bit pricey, almost whisper in cost.

Still, fits two with barrage Jonus + Barrage & ICT & Ruthless Kestal. It's kinda funny when your lynchpin synergy ship is cheaper than everyone else

Kinda worried flying it will convince me to buy another punisher

That’s probably why there are so many medium bases in the imperial conversion kit.

1 minute ago, DodgingArcs said:

That’s probably why there are so many medium bases in the imperial conversion kit.

Two?

Just enough for the two punishers everyone should already own!

55 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

Just enough for the two punishers everyone should already own!

My body is ready.

3 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:

I think you are under estimating the value of the Lock he grants. It’s not Krennic that is bad, it’s the Optimised Prototype that is situational.

Of the 4 Empire crew ships only one of them has a Lock action.

Krennic isn’t bad. He’s fair. Your 1.0 bias where Krennic is borderline broken are taking over here.

Krennic isn't just bad when compared to his 1.0 iteration.

Krennic costs the same as Lando, Chewbacca, Nien Numb, Ketsu, and costs more than: Hera, Sabine, Jyn, Chopper, Zeb, Vizago, Qira, Beckett, Unkar, 0-0-0, Boba, Cad Bane, Chewbacca (Scum), IG-88D and L3.

With imperial crew carriers are still somewhat lacking, the real estate costs of a crew slot really grew. Especially now that we have worthwhile crew to use.

Giving a lock action isn't really great. It removes the ability of the ship to use a native action it probably wants to use (coordinate, reinforce, jam), while taking an expensive crew slot.

Then, after all this, you get the marginal benefit of spending any paint result you have to do something pretty nifty...IF

- It's a different ship... Making Krennic divorced from his own effect this way significantly nerfs any lists he is in, because now you need a support craft and a combat craft... I'd love to have used beefed up combat Lambdas and Phantoms.

- You have the ship locked with Krennic, making this ability IN dependent, on the carrier of all ships too.. So if you want it useful, you have to go expensive on the carriers, and Imps don't even have IN6 carriers like the other factions.

- You fire from your front arc (So you really can't make a combat lambda)

- You fire from your primary weapons (So no Gunboats, Bombers, Punishers, Aggressors...)

So

You pay 5 points in addition to a 2 ship combo, in order to get a:

- Initiative dependent

- Action dependent

- Front arc only

- Primary only

way to spend results that would normally do things anyway.

Also, you may or may not be able to use the Lock Krennic gave, since you need it to trigger prototype, depending on your IN values.

Now, let's imagine a card.

Modification: *Optimized Targeting Computer

Gives Lock:

When attacking a ship you have locked, you may spend 1 hit/crit/focus result. If you do, choose 1: The defender loses 1 shield or the defender flips 1 damage card

This is the same as 2.0 Krennic, except all the restrictions. Now THAT's a fair card for 5 points, when compared with the other cards. It wouldn't break any ship. It could be unique even... The 2.0 Krennic just has too many drawbacks, for not that great of a benefit. When comparing with Lando, for example, it really makes you wonder... That's a more powerful effect, and it is way easier to use, for the same cost.

It's not that the effect is too weak, or that I want it to give an extra shield, or any other broken stuff from 1.0... It just has way too many limitations, which is not seen in other cards in his costrange.

I can maybe see 2.0 Krennic on Jendon...and that's literally about it

hey, it's more alpha capability I guess...

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I can maybe see 2.0 Krennic on Jendon...and that's literally about it

hey, it's more alpha capability I guess...

Jendon likes ordnance, Krennic doesn't.

I just don't see any build where Krennic is "good"... He is acceptable in some situations, but he is far from the best option, even then.

I guess you could do an Advanced swarm with a Unique Advanced pilot getting the prototype...

But for some reason I just don't see that happening. Could be somewhat related to the fact that the ship was yet again balanced around Vader.

I mean it'd just be to get the TL on Jendon himself

You'd need an Advance (x1 or v1, really) to actually do the prototpying

Maybe not the worst idea with inq/7sis

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean it'd just be to get the TL on Jendon himself

You'd need an Advance (x1 or v1, really) to actually do the prototpying

Maybe not the worst idea with inq/7sis

I'm not too sure about them. I need to fly them a bit more. Their price seems pretty steep, and Sis cant really use other Force abilities.

Eh, personal opinion is that force abilities kinda suck unless you got enough bodies to enable Sense or you want to pony up for Supernatural

Honestly, just give a TAP a colision detector (possibly a backup procket) and it should be fine

Sis is more reasonably costed for sure, though

Isn't this the Punisher thread? More Punisher thoughts please! I need more ideas!