3 minutes ago, Fourtytwo said:Boy, this needs to be clarified.
If someone really plays with Lando.
( Much to Learn already has its own thread.)
Edited by a1bert
Tough Luck + Cheat to Win
2 hours ago, Fourtytwo said:But is 'what you rolled' really the same as 'results'?
Boy, this needs to be clarified. What then about Ezra's Much to Learn special ability, especially the way it works with another friendly Force User within 3 spaces, just to make this a bit more fun.
The reason this question originally came up was because of Ezra speculation, but it seems that you can't use "Much to Learn" on a die that was already rerolled by something else like "officer's training". The reason is that much to learn first selects a die to reroll before changing its side, so rerolled dice aren't eligible for the ability.
In my opinion you cannot CtW after TL. The reason is, that TL removes a rerolled die result from a results and CtW lets you change a result to any other result. So, because you don't have any result to work with after TL, you cannot change it to anything.
Edited by Szycha4 hours ago, LordDraigo1 said:Why can't you change nothing to something? By this logic, if Lando rolled a blank on his re-roll into a white dice, he'd not be able to play this card.
If cheat to win said exchange a result for another result, then I'd be onboard.
For changing die's results into another die's result, I believe you need die's results first. Tough luck removed them, so you don't have results to change. And that's what CtW says "change that die's results to anoter result of your choice on that die". BTW blank is a result, I'm pretty sure a removed result is different than a blank result.
39 minutes ago, Szycha said:In my opinion you cannot CtW after TL. The reason is, that TL removes a rerolled die result from a results and CtW lets you change a result to any other result. So, because you don't have any result to work with after TL, you cannot change it to anything.
Exactly what I meant.
Edited by Golan TrevizeBTW, did anyone submit the question to a designer?
Edited by Golan Trevize19 hours ago, Golan Trevize said:BTW, did anyone submit the question to a designer?
DO IT!
17 minutes ago, Fourtytwo said:DO IT!
*DEW IT!* you mean ?
3 hours ago, Fourtytwo said:DO IT!
I can't atm
My interpretation is results that have been removed cannot be changed. A blank result on a white die is still a result, but a removed result is null, it doesn't exist anymore. Like how "0" is a number but "-" isn't. Cheat to win specifically says it changes the rerolled die's "result", and "result" is the same thing that Heightened Reflexes has removed.
Will be interesting to see the official ruling and the logic behind it.
On 8/21/2018 at 2:11 PM, brettpkelly said:The reason this question originally came up was because of Ezra speculation, but it seems that you can't use "Much to Learn" on a die that was already rerolled by something else like "officer's training". The reason is that much to learn first selects a die to reroll before changing its side, so rerolled dice aren't eligible for the ability.
Don't want to get too far off topic, but I don't see Much to Learn restricted like that. What am I not seeing?
On 8/21/2018 at 6:52 PM, LordDraigo1 said:
Deleted post. Something wrong is going on with notification
6 hours ago, theChony said:Don't want to get too far off topic, but I don't see Much to Learn restricted like that. What am I not seeing?
Much to learn is a two part ability. The first part has a requirement to trigger of selecting a die eligible for reroll. You can't skip over that to get to the second part of the ability.
5 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:Much to learn is a two part ability. The first part has a requirement to trigger of selecting a die eligible for reroll. You can't skip over that to get to the second part of the ability.
But, we know (from Diala's Foresight ) that you can choose to reroll a die that has been rerolled, it just doesn't end up rerolling the die. ( Foresight gives a trigger for Defensive Stance even if the defense die was already rerolled and thus isn't affected.)
Edited by a1bert2 hours ago, a1bert said:But, we know (from Diala's Foresight ) that you can choose to reroll a die that has been rerolled, it just doesn't end up rerolling the die. ( Foresight gives a trigger for Defensive Stance even if the defense die was already rerolled and thus isn't affected.)
So are we changing our mind about the ezra ability?
6 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:So are we changing our mind about the ezra ability?
I haven't written for or against about turning to a side being possible or not possible on a rerolled die, so I have both my roll and set to a face of my choice left.
Edited by a1bert7 minutes ago, a1bert said:I haven't written for or against about turning to a side being possible or not possible on a rerolled die, so I have both my roll and set to a face of my choice left.
"2) No. Much to Learn is one ability. The latter part cannot be used without the first, again , due to "instead" referring to the reroll of the first part (not a reroll from any source)."
isn't this saying you can't play much to learn after mitigate for the reason I started above?
15 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:"2) No. Much to Learn is one ability. The latter part cannot be used without the first, again , due to "instead" referring to the reroll of the first part (not a reroll from any source)."
isn't this saying you can't play much to learn after mitigate for the reason I started above?
It says that Mitigate doesn't have the "if a Force User within 3 spaces, turn to a side of your choice" option. The second part of Much to Learn cannot be used with Mitigate. With Mitigate you perform a reroll and that's it.
You can still use Much to Learn after Mitigate because both are your reroll abilities. The Foresight ruling tells us that you don't need to choose a die that's "eligible". There is no prerequisite - you perform as much as you can. So it seems that if you use Much to Learn on the already rerolled die with a non-force-user unique within 3 spaces, nothing happens. With a force user within 3 spaces though - you can probably turn the die to a different face. However, why not use Much to Learn in the first place, and save your Mitigate for the other di(c)e if needed? (Well, if you have two crappy rolls, but even then you would use Mitigate and Much to Learn on different dice. Ah, to prevent the defender from rerolling it.)
Edited by a1bertJust now, a1bert said:It says that Mitigate doesn't have the "if a Force User within 3 spaces, turn to a side of your choice" option. The second part of Much to Learn cannot be used with Mitigate. With Mitigate you perform a reroll and that's it.
You can still use Much to Learn after Mitigate because both are your reroll abilities. The Foresight ruling tells us that you don't need to choose a die that's "eligible". There is no prerequisite - you perform as much as you can. So it seems that if you use Much to Learn on the already rerolled die without a force user within 3 spaces, nothing happens. With a force user within 3 spaces though - you can probably turn the die to a different face. However, why not use Much to Learn in the first place, and save your Mitigate for the other di(c)e if needed? (Well, if you have two crappy rolls, but even then you would use Mitigate and Much to Learn on different dice.)
Gotcha, I guess the question was misworded in the other thread. This was the question we were trying to answer: whether you can use much to learn after a reroll; not whether you can use much to learn in conjunction with a reroll.