I just checked the status of my Maelstromgames order about GM's toolkit only to see that it's already out of stock from the publisher! I mean what the hell?! Did anyone in Europe get it? This is some absolute stupidity from FFG. How hard it is to print enough copies to so that it's not sold out during the first few weeks.

I'm seriously pissed off as it's not even listed as being reprinted at FFG upcoming list. Does anyone have any idea/news about this?

I'm still waiting for my order.

It states that it should arrive around 10.IV.

But yeah, I'm pissed off too by the way Europe is treated.

I know, that for American companies we are on the other side of the world (to say the least, owner of my FLGS stated that a bit more bluntly), but like Doc Cthulhu said: is it really so hard to print few more copies?

Do we always have to wait few weeks longer than everyone else does?

Simply put all they are doing is supplying their home market faster, its understandable, the US market is A LOT bigger than the european one and a lot less patient, the here and now fast food mentality prevails. On the up side, seems like the game is selling like hotcakes which is good, that indicates a long and healthy lifespan.

Dave Allen wrote:
Seems to me Doc that you're blaming FFG for dictating how much stock Maelstrom carry - which I very much doubt is true. It is the supplier, not the publisher that the site says is out of stock. The supplier is likely a distributor, not FFG.

You're most likely right but as I seem to remember that it wasn't "out of stock" when I placed the order I really don't mind into which direction I lead the angry mob. Mr. Green

I'm hasty and passionate when it comes to things I like by Khorne I demand blood when something bugs me. I admit it was a hasty thing to do to blame FFG. But I just really really want it. Like right now.

(Copy/paste from StS)

This is down to distributors, not FFG. FFG don't just print off X number of copies and then try to get the distributors to buy them, they ask the distributors how many they want and then print that many (+ a small number for their own stock). If Maelstrom are out of toolkits it's because Maelstrom seriously underestimated demand, not FFG.

It's still available from other suppliers - suppliers that were smarter than Maelstrom.

doc don't get upset.

Amazon.uk has it listed for pre-order www.amazon.co.uk/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-GMs-Toolkit/dp/1589946995/ref=sr_1_2

iguk.co.uk does not have it listed at all yet www.iguk.co.uk/categories/warhammer-frp-296.aspx

Basically it has not reached Europe yet. Why? Simple, the game is made in China, shipped to the US, then has to be shipped all over the world. In my job we ship goods to the US every week it gererally takes a couple of weeks, right now we have the Easter bankholidays which slows every thing down even more. In order for the product to be released at the same time all over the world FFG would have to either delay the release in the US or have the products locally produced in each sales region.

Look on the brightside, you get to read reviews before you decide to buy or not.

Foolishboy said:

Yep. This is my bright side. No wait! I already paid for it. Now I'll just have to wait...

Your complaint about Europe being treated poorly is ridiculous. For one, Amazon here in the US still lists it as not even being released and not being available until June. FFG does really small runs, and makes things available at first to really limited numbers of customers. On one hand it gives them the ability to say the product sold out on its initial run, but on the other hand it means the buzz has already died down some when they go into wide-release.

I wouldn't worry too much about it - it'll be available when it's available. It looks like I won't be getting mine for 2 months yet either, and I'm hardly in Europe.

FFG also typically underestimates the interest their products generate on first release. Its no surprise to me they're already stating sold out. I'm sure they'll reprint it sooner than later, but this is nothing new for FFG and any of their product lines. They print what they see as 'enough' then move on to the next product printing. When the GM Kit comes back up in the printing cycle it'll show up again.

Sunatet said:

We in the U.S. have the same issue with getting GW products and other Euro games a few weeks after they release... It's more of a shipping issue overseas than it is an issue with U.S. companies not caring about European gamers.

FFG seems to print in small runs. I'm not sure if it's due to lack of planning or if it's a calculated risk to avoid overstock on these items. If I were FFG I'm not sure I'd print a huge print run either, but their reprint process is VERY long. Not sure what they should do about it.

Another thing to bear in mind is that very large print runs would be problematic for FFG if things go badly like they did with The Gathering Storm campaign. So I think they only do small print runs to mitigate risks with the printing itself. There's quite a variety of components in a typical FFG kit, from mini cards, standard cards, books, to cardboard printouts. If the printing of just one of those components fails they still need to wait, as they can't ship a partial product.

Another case of this was the dice in the first batch of the coreset, where they included extra dice.

If a very large print run goes bad they might have to order another large print run from another company while they seek to be compensated for the failed print run.

LeBlanc13 said:

Yeah I suppose so.

One would think that our planet is a small place (you can travel on another continent just to meet your next door friend that you haven't seen in years in the middle of a jungle). Looks like its size depends on the task you want to achieve (shipping is like moon travel).

Well, nothing we can do about it, we just have to wait (gosh, I hate being patient...).

LeBlanc13 said:

It's down to demand. FFG print enough to meet the demand from the distributors. The fact that the distributors underestimated the demand from their customers isn't really something FFG can do anything about. They can't go ahead and print more copies than the distributors want, 'cause they'll be stuck with the storage bill until the distributors put in another order.

It doesn't look like anyone here in Ottawa, Canada are going to get any copies of this item any time soon.

...Unless one of you can say otherwise? Hopeful am I?

I think calgary, alberta is getting some this week so there is still stock, just need to look in the right places...

i just went to my flgs in buford, ga and the first thing he did was call his distributor who said they could get it for me. so it does seem to be all about the distributor. i am glad the gm's toolkit has repeat monsters, i was thinking about buying another core set just for more dice and monsters. i have tons of dnd minis and a lame orc and gobbo Warhammer fantasy army but i am kind of ocd and want everything to look the same. plus i made a promise to myself never to buy dnd minis anymore, unless there is one that is outrageously cool. what a horrible addiction!

mine was also on pre-order from Maelstrom and when i contacted them to see where it was at, they said that they had got some through from the distributor but that didn't cvover all pre-orders, and so I'd have to wait until the next batch, which they should hopefully be getting in the next couple of weeks.

I can only assume this is down to the distributor not having enough rather than Maelstrom stupidly not ordering all of the pre-orders (although i guess they run the risk of people cancelling, so perhaps don't order their full pre-order quota, but I'm not party to their buying strategy, so can't say for sure...)

Now whether the distributor didn't get sufficient stock from FFG because they didn't order enough or FFG couldn't provide enough, I'm again not sure, but doesn't one company handle UK distribution for FFG?.. I recall reading posts from that distributor when there was confusion about when the UK release of the core set would be, and it being clarified by someone in the unamed distribution company that i can't remember, that the UK core sets had been screwed up at the printers..and so we'd have to wait (again).

macd21 said:

Have you got an example of a UK supplier that has it in stock? I'm struggling to find one right now....

I am pretty sure that Esdevium games are the sole distributor of FFG products in the UK. They are certainly who Amazon get FFG products from and I think they have a policy of only letting big retailers like Amazon get hold of them once independant stockists have had them for a while (thus why I never bother pre-ordering FFG stuff from Amazon).

http://www.esdeviumgames.com/

pumpkin said:

FFG would presumably have to ask distributors for rough estimates of how many copies they'll take off their hands well in advance of the release date. The distributors base that information on feedback from retailers like Maelstrom. So say Maelstrom says they want 100 copies. Esdevium will probably order a few more than that. Time passes... and Maelstrom get 300 pre-orders for the game. They pass that on to Esdevium, but by then it's too late to pass on the information to FFG, so Maelstrom only end up with 150 copies, if they're lucky.

This is a fairly common problem with new games. The distributors and retailers find it very difficult to judge potential interest in a new game because they have no sales figures to base their estimates on. All they have is feedback from customers - general interest and opinions on the game and the number of existing pre-orders. WFRP 3 was a very controversial release with a lot of negative feedback, which may have caused the distributors to seriously underestimate the popularity of the game.

Another potential issue from FFG's side is the maximum number of copies they can produce in a print run. Say their printers usually produce 10,000 copies of a supplement for a run, but a given supplement has enough interest to justify 20,000 copies. In order to print those extra copies FFG would have to hire another printer, or expand the facilities of their existing one. Neither is probably a viable option for them, as the cost of doing so would easily outstrip the value of the books. Odds are the next supplement will be back down to 10,000 copies, so the surplus capacity it wasted. Instead FFG are better off printing the maximum number they can and arranging for a second print run as quickly as possible.

In addition to the excellent points macd21 made, another factor concerning this particular product has to do with it being released early in response to the printing problem with Gathering Storm.

Since it wasn't expected for another month, the stores would have had fewer people asking about it, and the distributors might not have asked the stores for pre-orders yet. They may have had to "fire blind" in response to the sudden release of the product. This is bound to put extra complications into the supply chain, and no doubt contributed to the uneven availability we're seeing.

Replicant253 said:

Aye, that's the fella!

So i guess the question is do Esdevium have any in stock currently (or in the process of getting some) or do they have to wait for the next print run from FFG to obtain more, whenever that may be?

Maelstrom told me they expected more in a couple of weeks, which would suggest Esdevium do have stock available or due shortly, but that the stock Maelstrom will get at that time is only enough to cover the rest of the pre-orders which is why they still have it out of stock on their web site.

Obviously they could just have told me a couple of weeks to try and placate a potentially irate customer, who when two weeks come along and still no sign they come up with a further delay story to plactae me further. They are normally pretty good though, and I'm still not convinced this is due to Maelstrom doing something stupid, as it doesn't seem other UK sellers have it either, contrary to rumour...

I think it's funny how some of us are stepping up to defend FFG on this issue when they are silent about it.

It seems some stores didn't get what they asked for... this is either a problem at distributors or in lack of manufacturing by FFG. Since no one from FFG is coming forward to say what happened, I suppose we'll never know.

pumpkin said:

It's possible that FFG ordered a second print run as soon as they could once they confirmed demand was high enough, so it's possible they'll have more stock in within a few weeks. Again, it isn't so much Maelstrom doing something stupid as doing something smart. Overstocking a product that you don't think there's a lot of demand for is stupid. Not ordering enough to meet demand is less of an issue.

LeBlanc13 said:

FFG rarely, if ever come forward with this kind of information. Nor do other RPG companies, especially when it's not their fault. If FFG makes a mistake they can come forward and say "sorry, we screwed up, my bad". When the distributors misjudge demand FFG keep their mouths shut. Telling the fans "hey, not our fault, the distributors screwed up" annoys the companies they have to do business with and most irate fans will just think that FFG are trying to shift blame onto someone else.