Is anybody else old enough in this game to remember Rebel Convoy lists back in the day, with a couple of Outer Rim Smugglers, Y-Wings with Ion Turrets, that kind of thing?

I don't think it works in 2nd Edition, as the YT-1300 generic has the extra attack die now and costs too much, but there's some hope in Scum;

2x Freighter Captain

2x Crymorah Goon with Ion Turret

This comes out to 168pts, so 32pts left over to slot in something else. So what's the play here;

Squeeze in a fifth ship with a Crymorah Goon without a turret, Binayre Pirate, Autopilot Drone, and with the latter two options, use the points left over to add bombs to the Y's, cargo chutes to the YT's? Not sure if the 5th ship works better than adding more Illicit zest to the ships.

Is this archetype back for 2.0?

It'll be back in scum, but it'll be somewhat limited due to not having 360s. You do have the ability to run it with Kavil and get a four die ion shot though!

I do think it’s a shame they gave the transports high attack power natively rather than as an optional upgrade. I wonder why they did that.

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

I do think it’s a shame they gave the transports high attack power natively rather than as an optional upgrade. I wonder why they did that.

Because the examples of the ship we see are heroic? As in they are piloted (and upgraded by) characters that have names and involved in either the civil war against the empire and need weapons of war for said battle, or involved in criminal enterprises.

If we were to see a “civilian” model, it would likely have 1 attack die.

The reason they did this heroic characters have a higher likelihood of having more powerful weapons in their ships, and players often want to play these characters.

Eh, two die primaries are still weak when you're not fielding them in proper #s

Also, Drea. Her ability is great now

@That Blasted Samophlange

I don't think I agree with your logic;

1.0 generic Falcon represented a "nobody" in heroic terms and had the 2-Attack turret while the "heroic" representations of Han, Lando, and Chewie got the 3-Attack turret, and the Outer Rim Smuggler was priced accordingly.

In 2.0, the generic Rebel Falcon has a 3-Attack turret now, and still represents "nobody".

Compare to Lando's Falcon where the "Heroic" characters all share the 2-Attack with the Freighter Captain.

So how is that showing the Limited pilots (ie-the heroes) as being better off than the generics?

13 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Because the examples of the ship we see are heroic? ...

But they're not, that's the point. You get the generics, but they still have the fancy high stats of the upgraded models. We already have titles like Millennium Falcon to distinguish between the generic and the heroic, they've just decided not to use these to change the stats, whilst also getting rid of the built in stat differences we had in 1.0. Seems odd to me.

Double feedback frieghters

Drea (ICT, cloaking for flanking)

Goon (ICT + vet gunner, because Drea isn't primary only)

Is 197

@mazz0 , @cleardave

yes, not every ship is flown by someone from media releases. This is why I mentioned that the factions that use these ships, have likely changed their basic guns from standard civilian models for military grade gear.

An outer rim smuggler is NOT the same as someone why operates a legal cargo delivery. One is more likely to be involved in combat, due to the illegal nature of what they do.

look at the factions we have; scum and vilainy, rebel alliance, Resistance. These are ALL combat centric, so logically we could put forth that the weapons they use may be upgraded.

Until we get a civilian and traders faction, we don't know the actual weapon loadout in terms of red dice.

So a character, whether named or generic is ‘heroic’ by classic definition in this game; has the qualities of being a hero or heroine in that they are above and beyond the rest of the universe.

edit; it was also mentioned, i think during the conversion kit unboxing (or other early interview) that the chose not to use different stats for the ships, like the old 1.0 yt-1300, as the amount of people who actually flew that version was very minimal, and thus, not worth making them different.

9 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

@mazz0 , @cleardave

yes, not every ship is flown by someone from media releases. This is why I mentioned that the factions that use these ships, have likely changed their basic guns from standard civilian models for military grade gear.

An outer rim smuggler is NOT the same as someone why operates a legal cargo delivery. One is more likely to be involved in combat, due to the illegal nature of what they do.

look at the factions we have; scum and vilainy, rebel alliance, Resistance. These are ALL combat centric, so logically we could put forth that the weapons they use may be upgraded.

Until we get a civilian and traders faction, we don't know the actual weapon loadout in terms of red dice.

So a character, whether named or generic is ‘heroic’ by classic definition in this game; has the qualities of being a hero or heroine in that they are above and beyond the rest of the universe.

edit; it was also mentioned, i think during the conversion kit unboxing (or other early interview) that the chose not to use different stats for the ships, like the old 1.0 yt-1300, as the amount of people who actually flew that version was very minimal, and thus, not worth making them different.

But if the upgraded combat stats were available as an upgrade there'd be nothing stopping you play with them just as you do now, you'd just have an extra option of, for example, running them as support ships, or blockers or ordnance carriers or anything else that doesn't involve increasing their primary attack, like you could with the generics in v1. I just don't see what's added by not making it an option.

1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

But if the upgraded combat stats were available as an upgrade there'd be nothing stopping you play with them just as you do now, you'd just have an extra option of, for example, running them as support ships, or blockers or ordnance carriers or anything else that doesn't involve increasing their primary attack, like you could with the generics in v1. I just don't see what's added by not making it an option.

But no one would, and said upgrade would easily become a “must have” when building a list. This is seemingly antithesis of the 2.0 design philosophy, and would lead, again, to certain ships not being flown, as people would equip this upgrade on named pilots and thus, power creep with red dice - another design element antithesis - or this upgrade being increased in cost to the point it becomes prohibitive.

17 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But no one would, and said upgrade would easily become a “must have” when building a list. This is seemingly antithesis of the 2.0 design philosophy, and would lead, again, to certain ships not being flown, as people would equip this upgrade on named pilots and thus, power creep with red dice - another design element antithesis - or this upgrade being increased in cost to the point it becomes prohibitive.

No-one would? This thread was started by someone who misses the cheaper versions of the YT-1300, who used to use them.

21 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

No-one would? This thread was started by someone who misses the cheaper versions of the YT-1300, who used to use them.

Apologies. Very few then.

8 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Apologies. Very few then.

Well, I have no idea about that. I doubt I’d fly them personally, and obviously you wouldn’t either. The fact the OP thinks a squad of such ships was common enough to warrant a nickname , “Rebel Convoy”, suggests a number of people did though.

Mostly I just like the idea for how it feels - thematic, grants choice, and as far as I can tell no downsides.

Personally don't see any value to doubling up on frieghters

They're cheap, but their offense is so lacking that they're really only any good as blockers

Probably best off with a single YT and more other stuff

54 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

The fact the OP thinks a squad of such ships was common enough to warrant a nickname , “Rebel Convoy”, suggests a number of people did though.

Mostly I just like the idea for how it feels - thematic, grants choice, and as far as I can tell no downsides.

It was a thing back in Wave 2 1.0. A brief thing, like the Triple Bounty Hunters, but there it was. Of course then you had 4 ships to choose from per side. The basic idea was a ton of shields/hull to burn through, all while the YT's were blocking and shooting, and the Y's could more easily line up Ions and primary attacks.

Didn't stay competitive for long and fell off totally as far as I could tell by the time Wave 4-5 hit.

Here's my attempt:

Freighter Captain (46)
Feedback Array (4)

Drea Renthal (40)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Cloaking Device (5)

Freighter Captain (46)
Feedback Array (4)

Freighter Captain (46)
Feedback Array (4)

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

9 minutes ago, cleardave said:

It was a thing back in Wave 2 1.0. A brief thing, like the Triple Bounty Hunters, but there it was. Of course then you had 4 ships to choose from per side. The basic idea was a ton of shields/hull to burn through, all while the YT's were blocking and shooting, and the Y's could more easily line up Ions and primary attacks.

Didn't stay competitive for long and fell off totally as far as I could tell by the time Wave 4-5 hit.

Accurate description. I remember getting walloped by it in the Vassal League at the time, and never saw it again since then.

Triple Bounty Hunters had way more longevity, at least in my area. It survived until the Decimator came in wave 5!

3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But no one would, and said upgrade would easily become a “must have” when building a list.

It depends on why you are building the list. When I am storytelling, I want those "generic" YT-1300s, and I find it annoying they are gone.

3 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Well, I have no idea about that. I doubt I’d fly them personally, and obviously you wouldn’t either. The fact the OP thinks a squad of such ships was common enough to warrant a nickname , “Rebel Convoy”, suggests a number of people did though.

Mostly I just like the idea for how it feels - thematic, grants choice, and as far as I can tell no downsides.

This, 100%. There in no reason to exclude fluff, if it doesn't ruin gameplay.

I use those "underpowered" YT-1300s in my 1st campaign mission precisely because they are representative of non-heroic spaceport vagabonds.

Paring down all the pilots to "heroes only" also screws with people who use pilot mortality as a way to run a story-based game where mid-level pilots "become what you have."

41 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

It depends on why you are building the list. When I am storytelling, I want those "generic" YT-1300s, and I find it annoying they are gone.

This, 100%. There in no reason to exclude fluff, if it doesn't ruin gameplay.

I use those "underpowered" YT-1300s in my 1st campaign mission precisely because they are representative of non-heroic spaceport vagabonds.

Paring down all the pilots to "heroes only" also screws with people who use pilot mortality as a way to run a story-based game where mid-level pilots "become what you have."

If x-wing was solely an RPG supplement, I would agree with you 100%. However, it is not. It is a head to head versus game. Even the missions are seemingly absent ftom the core set.

Now I am all about fluff, and if a Aturi cluster like campaign comes out, something like this may be needed.

As is, it doesn't really add to the game that is currently x-wing. The game is not scenario driven - at least as put out by FFG currently, so there is no reason to cater to the minority of players. As I said, if an actual campaign comes out, then we can come back to this.

At the end of the day, could this not be done with a generic title?

Civilian model.

Reduce your attack die by one.

-2/-4/-6points. (S/M/L base)

9 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

so there is no reason to cater to the minority of players.

1 lousy piece of cardboard that probably doesn't even need playtesting is hardly catering to anybody.

Quote

At the end of the day, could this not be done with a generic title?

Civilian mod  el.

Reduce your attack die by one.

-2/-4/-6points. (S/M/L ba  se)  

Well, overall that is a lame (sorry) representation of the idea, since the old YT-1300 had changes to PS, Hull, and Shields as well to reflect it's "lesser status." But it would be a step in the right direction.

But, you did remind me why the 2.0 hullabaloo doesn't excite me. 100/6 was never my game, and a spit and polish version of it at 400/6 won't make a bit of difference.

I have to just keep hoping that "future Epic" wasn't just a BS promise to keep me from quitting wholesale.

Reb falcon is the miltarized version

Scum falcon is civilian, pre-Han version

2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

At the end of the day, could this not be done with a generic title?

Civilian model.

Reduce your attack die by one.

-2/-4/-6points. (S/M/L base)

I think this is the way to do it. X-Wing 2.0 also wanted to limit needless cards, and having an auto-include title to bring a ship up to combat capable seems like it would be a needless card in most cases. It would be better to have it as a title to scale it down for scenario play, where it refunds points. Maybe where it also lowers the hull or shield value.

In fact, I could see a similar modification being an interesting option in the competitive game.

Stripped-Down Chassis

Reduce your hull by one.

-2 points

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Reb falcon is the miltarized version

Scum falcon is civilian, pre-Han version

Um, they have exactly the same specs on the cards. (Granted, I'm not going to waste my time looking in 2 different PDFs for the upgrade slots.)

15 minutes ago, MortalPlague said:

X-Wing 2.0 also wanted to limit needless cards , and having an auto-include title to bring a ship up to combat capable seems like it would be a needless card in most cases. It would be better to have it as a title to scale it down for scenario play, where it refunds points. Maybe where it also lowers the hull or shield value.

Yeah, that's too bad. Because I have the most fun rattling around in the "needless card" section.

Still, the other idea is nice.

Freighter Captain (46)
Lando's Millennium Falcon (6)

Freighter Captain (46)

Crymorah Goon (32)
Ion Cannon Turret (6)

Crymorah Goon (32)
Ion Cannon Turret (6)

Outer Rim Pioneer (24)
Tactical Officer (2)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

gives you some coordinate which could be handy in the traffic, and the ability to just plow through the rock field without caring much. Dock the shuttle when it gets into trouble.