I was a bit sceptic towards the idea to give concussion grenades to Fleet Troopers. Blast can increase the damage output quite a bit, which is a big deal for such a unit. However, I suspected that it would usually just end up in an equal trade with your opponent. You have to move a fragile unit within 6” of your target to use the grenades. With range 2, it is much easier to stay in cover yourself. The questions are: How significant is the additional output? In which situations is it worth it to commit the unit and expose such a hit or miss unit to enemy fire for that alpha strike? I had no opportunity yet to compare both setups in some actual games, so I had to use a rather theoretical approach.

I have to admit that I changed my mind a little bit. I would still say that the grenades not an auto-include though.

My initial idea was the target will usually be in hard cover, often behind a barricade, so it will be in a defensive position. That means you usually won’t benefit from cover yourself, and you will very likely be exposed to other enemy units near that target. It also means that you have to start the turn within the threat range of the target (and usually some other unites) to use the grenades. Fleet Troopers without the support of No Times For Sorrows or Reckless Diversion have a threat range of 12” (6” Move + 6” Grenade) around the leader, while Snowtroopers have 14” (2 times 4” move + 6” Flamer). An alpha strike with grenades is very hard to pull off.

Fleet Troopers are not a head-on bunker buster unit though. They are rather an asset for area denial. They prefer to stay out of line of sight or in heavy cover to ensure an alpha strike against an overcommitted enemy unit. Even in this scenario, their target will often have at least light cover due to suppression token. The odds vs Snowtroopers/Stormtroopers in the open with suppression token do not justify taking grenades. The damage is slightly higher of course, but you need to use the grenades more than once to kill more than the 5 points than you invested. The chances to reach import thresholds (For example the chance to kill a flamer in a full snow trooper squad or the scatter gun in an opposing full Fleet Trooper squad) are not significantly higher and still very slim for a full sized unit. The benefit of grenades in a full unit becomes more significant against a target in heavy cover.

Here are the odds of an Alpha Strike of a full unit of Fleet Troopers with and without grenade against a unit with red dice without surge in heavy cover:

Scatter gun, 4 blasters, Grenade, no aim token, vs Stormtroopers (average 3.5 kills):

Scatter gun, 5 blasters, with aim, Stormtroopers in heavy cover (average 3.0 kills):

Scatter gun, 5 blasters, Stormtroopers in heavy cover (average 2.6 kills):

The most important thing for me concerning these Numbers is the fact that with the grenades, it is actually relatively likely that you kill 3 Stormtroopers or more with a grenade (80% instead of 50% or 65% if you can aim). There is also a significant chance that you kill the heavy weapon of a full Stormtrooper Squad (23%). The odds without a grenade to are much worse (7% or 14% with aim).
If you target Bikes, there is only a significant difference if it doesn’t cost you an action to get in range 1 vs range 2. The odds to deal 3 or more wounds with a scatter gun and 5 Troopers against Bikes are 92% (grenade)/92% (5 blasters with aim or stand by)/81% (without aim).

That differences vs Stromtroopers or Bikes are significant, but not as significant to give up cover or to expose yourself to more enemy units.

The effect of grenades is much more important if Fleet Troopers lose 3 Blasters:

Scatter gun and 2 Blasters vs Stormtroopers in Heavy Cover (average 1,3 kills):

Scatter gun, Grenade, one blaster vs Stormtroopers (average 2,4 kills)

With 3 Fleet Troopers against Bikes, the grenades give a real significant edge. 1 Blaster, a scattergun and a grenade have a 61% chance to deal 3 or more wounds to bikes, while 2 Blasters with a scattergun have a 58% chance with an aim token and 32% without a token.

Conclusion:

The most important argument for grenades is that they reduce the loss of damage output when the Fleet Troopers suffer damage themselves. When the Fleet Trooper unit is not at full strength any more, the grenades are worth it even against targets with light cover or suppression tokens.

As long as the Fleet Troopers are at full strength though, they should only use grenades if it does not expose them to more fire.

In my area, Fleet Troopers are frequently viewed as a counter to Speeder bikes, so as you pointed out, the grenade helps by removing cover. Reducing a Speeder Bike unit to one model is BIG, you've halved their attack dice, and reduced the unit to Impact 1, an important difference if you are running AT-RTs, T-47s, or any future armoured units. I slightly disagree with the statement of "don't expose them to fire," only because that assessment is very situational. If it is your last activation for the turn, one might have cards or abilities to allow you to move them back into cover before the enemy can fire. Or you might want to use them as a "bait" target, distracting your opponent while you take an objective on an important turn. I agree that leaving a unit outside of cover is risky, but there are times when it is beneficial to do so.

16 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

In my area, Fleet Troopers are frequently viewed as a counter to Speeder bikes, so as you pointed out, the grenade helps by removing cover. Reducing a Speeder Bike unit to one model is BIG, you've halved their attack dice, and reduced the unit to Impact 1, an important difference if you are running AT-RTs, T-47s, or any future armoured units. I slightly disagree with the statement of "don't expose them to fire," only because that assessment is very situational. If it is your last activation for the turn, one might have cards or abilities to allow you to move them back into cover before the enemy can fire. Or you might want to use them as a "bait" target, distracting your opponent while you take an objective on an important turn. I agree that leaving a unit outside of cover is risky, but there are times when it is beneficial to do so.

I guess then we disagree to disagree ?

If you use other means than just hiding the unit to avoid getting shot at, that is still avoiding to expose them to fire in my book.

I also agree that it is usually much more important to play the mission instead of dealing damage.

In this post however, I was comparing a full unit of Fleet Troopers to a similiar unit with grenades. The upgrades sole purpose is to increase the damage output.

There will always be the temptation to use close in and use the grenades at a given opportunity. My point was that for a full unit, the additional damage alone will not be enough to give up cover.

If there are other reasons to sacrifice the unit its another story of course. But this situations usually are not influenced by the grenades.

37 minutes ago, M.Mustermann said:

I guess then we disagree to disagree ?

If you use other means than just hiding the unit to avoid getting shot at, that is still avoiding to expose them to fire in my book.

I also agree that it is usually much more important to play the mission instead of dealing damage.

In this post however, I was comparing a full unit of Fleet Troopers to a similiar unit with grenades. The upgrades sole purpose is to increase the damage output.

There will always be the temptation to use close in and use the grenades at a given opportunity. My point was that for a full unit, the additional damage alone will not be enough to give up cover.

If there are other reasons to sacrifice the unit its another story of course. But this situations usually are not influenced by the grenades.

I read "exposing them to fire" as "leaving them in the open" or "leaving them as valid targets for a ranged attack."

Also, your closing statement implies there is never a reason to expose the unit, if taken at face value, I understand there is probably an unseen asterisks there for "unless you gain more advantage by potentially sacrificing the unit."

But it is useful to have actual statistics than just "feels."