1 minute ago, masterstrider said:

Sure is. You can take Guarded Stance twice in a round using two maneuvers and they stack. Why? because they give "melee defense +1", and Sam Stewart wrote that "+" modifiers stack, while "x" modifiers do not. But remember, this only adds to your melee defense. It won't do anything for ranged.

I believe there was a similar question about the Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target options for vehicle combat and there were mixed feelings on whether or not you could benefit from it multiple times in a turn. These are both upgrade/downgrade rather than die adders, but it's a similar situation.

57 minutes ago, Quigonjinnandjuice said:

Sounds like a pretty fun character.

Now actually understanding the ability, I do not think it's THE best. I do however think it is one of the most important talents a group of force users could have.

It is pretty fun to use. I try to only use Harm when it's thematically/RP appropriate. Because the character is a Drall, he's small and gets frightened easily, which results in him lashing out with the Force. He hasn't quite mastered: "A jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack." I only took the power because we had a party member die and he was really attached to him. He wants to keep people from dying...kinda like someone else we know.

19 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I believe there was a similar question about the Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target options for vehicle combat and there were mixed feelings on whether or not you could benefit from it multiple times in a turn. These are both upgrade/downgrade rather than die adders, but it's a similar situation.

I just looked up the FAQ/Errata for FaD and on page 2 it sounds a little contradictory.

It says that things like Guarded Stance and cover don't stack. But then it says later in the clarification that anything with a "+" modifier for defense stacks, which Guarded Stance provides.

AoR and FaD CRBs say that Guarded Stance provides "melee defense +1", but the EotE CRB says "gains melee defense 1".

Just now, masterstrider said:

I just looked up the FAQ/Errata for FaD and on page 2 it sounds a little contradictory.

It says that things like Guarded Stance and cover don't stack. But then it says later in the clarification that anything with a "+" modifier for defense stacks, which Guarded Stance provides.

AoR and FaD CRBs say that Guarded Stance provides "melee defense +1", but the EotE CRB says "gains melee defense 1".

Welcome to the mess that is the FFG SW rules.

Note that Defense has gone back and forth and the most recent clarifications didn't really clarify anything.

1 minute ago, HappyDaze said:

Welcome to the mess that is the FFG SW rules.

Note that Defense has gone back and forth and the most recent clarifications didn't really clarify anything.

LOL. I'll just keep it simple and use the second part of the clarification since it makes the most sense, and assume that Guarded Stance offers "melee defense +1", like it offers in the newer CRBs. If they change it later, so be it.

If you want to hear something funny: we played with Critical Injuries in a completely different way than was intended for about 3 years. We played it: when you receive a Crit, the level of the injury was the number of difficulty dice you applied to every action you took...until it was healed. For example, if you received a 55, Fearsome Wound, that's a level 2 critical injury, so you would add 2 purple dice to your pool whenever you did anything. As you healed critical levels, you would reduce the difficulty of your pool.

It made combat feel so real and scary as ****. It also made you respect your party members because you never knew when one of them would have to step up and keep your *** alive until you got healed, or take over your skills in the group. You could be a real gimp for a session or two until you got some healing, which made you think twice about engaging in combat and prevented murder-hobo-ing. It was also great for building drama. A party of super heroes is very boring. A party with two level 1 crits on their key players means that everyone else that hangs back now has to step up and be the "hero" until everyone gets back to normal. It was the best mistake we ever made.

I love your mistake. The main criticism from my players has been the system is not gritty enough.

On 8/28/2018 at 3:42 AM, masterstrider said:

Sure is. You can take Guarded Stance twice in a round using two maneuvers and they stack. Why? because they give "melee defense +1", and Sam Stewart wrote that "+" modifiers stack, while "x" modifiers do not. But remember, this only adds to your melee defense. It won't do anything for ranged.

from the erata

Sources that provide defense (such as most armor) list the defense provided as a number, or say that they ‘provide’ defense. Some examples include:• Armor• Cover• Certain talents• Guarded Stance maneuver“These sources do not stack with each other. If a character could benefit from more than one of these sources of defense, the player chooses the best one.“However, other sources increase defense. These sources say they ‘increase’ defense, or they list the defense provided as a number with a ‘+’ sign in front of it. These sources of defense stack, both with each other and with any sources that provide defense.“If multiple sources that increase defense would in-crease a character’s defense higher than 4, the rating remains at 4.”

4 hours ago, syrath said:

from the erata

Sources that provide defense (such as most armor) list the defense provided as a number, or say that they ‘provide’ defense. Some examples include:• Armor• Cover• Certain talents• Guarded Stance maneuver“These sources do not stack with each other. If a character could benefit from more than one of these sources of defense, the player chooses the best one.“However, other sources increase defense. These sources say they ‘increase’ defense, or they list the defense provided as a number with a ‘+’ sign in front of it. These sources of defense stack, both with each other and with any sources that provide defense.“If multiple sources that increase defense would in-crease a character’s defense higher than 4, the rating remains at 4.”

Totally aware of the errata. However, it is worded a bit ambiguously. It lists examples of non-stackable defense e.g. Guarded Stance, but then goes on to say that anything that adds "melee defense +1" to defense could stack, which in the FaD and AoR books, is how Guarded Stance is worded. We play it the stackable kind. It hasn't "ruined" the game.

17 hours ago, WolfRider said:

I love your mistake. The main criticism from my players has been the system is not gritty enough.   

I think playing it on "hardcore mode" is much more fun. Players get desperate and actually start to connect better with their characters. They think things through because a fatal decision could mean they're walking around with Crit 2 for a few games. Of course, we occasionally used medics and doctors who could heal multiple critical levels in a session, but it was crazy expensive and always left us very short on credits.

3 hours ago, masterstrider said:

I think playing it on "hardcore mode" is much more fun. Players get desperate and actually start to connect better with their characters. They think things through because a fatal decision could mean they're walking around with Crit 2 for a few games. Of course, we occasionally used medics and doctors who could heal multiple critical levels in a session, but it was crazy expensive and always left us very short on credits.

Sometimes it works out that way, and other times it has the opposite effect. I've seen games of Cyberpunk 2020 (a game where the default playstyle is horribly brutal) where players don't get attached to their characters at all. Sometimes such games become Paranoia even if that's not what the cover of the rulebook says.

Anyway my original post was going to be the foil to heal/harm with protect with the mastery upgrade

4 hours ago, masterstrider said:

I think playing it on "hardcore mode" is much more fun. Players get desperate and actually start to connect better with their characters. They think things through because a fatal decision could mean they're walking around with Crit 2 for a few games. Of course, we occasionally used medics and doctors who could heal multiple critical levels in a session, but it was crazy expensive and always left us very short on credits.

That's one of the things about heal/harm that is so good. If you have a character far enough into the tree and is skilled in medicine. You really never have to worry about wounds or crits. Unless you happen to get hit for a 151+ before your healer can get to you.

11 hours ago, masterstrider said:

Totally aware of the errata. However, it is worded a bit ambiguously. It lists examples of non-stackable defense e.g. Guarded Stance, but then goes on to say that anything that adds "melee defense +1" to defense could stack, which in the FaD and AoR books, is how Guarded Stance is worded. We play it the stackable kind. It hasn't "ruined" the game.

my newer Edge of the Empire book quote "however he gains Melee Defense 1 until the end of his next turn"

Only my older core books say gain Melee Defense +1, Including my first core for Edge of the Empire, which got replaced because of a split spine.

Edit for reference I bougnt all three books on release except the newer Edge Core which was bought about 4 months ago.

10 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Sometimes it works out that way, and other times it has the opposite effect. I've seen games of Cyberpunk 2020 (a game where the default playstyle is horribly brutal) where players don't get attached to their characters at all. Sometimes such games become Paranoia even if that's not what the cover of the rulebook says.

That's true too. I played 2nd ed D&D where you had to roll 3D6 for your stats and had to take them them in the order you rolled them e.g. First role was Str, second Dex, etc. That was brutal.

I think DMs have to tread a fine line between gritty and vicious. I've also never played in a group that ever played the rules verbatim. In my experience, the Narrative Dice system is pretty forgiving. Sure you can make a character with +8 to Vicious and he can one shot explode PCs/NPCs, but you have to be prepared for a different sort of gaming experience and everyone should be on the same page before this happens. Open communication is the best way to keep the game from devolving into any unwanted experiences. I've called out GMs and asked them to make some games/stories more "heroic" and others with the same group more "gritty", which ultimately influences the builds, group dynamics and game style.

2 hours ago, syrath said:

my newer Edge of the Empire book quote "however he gains Melee Defense 1 until the end of his next turn"

Only my older core books say gain Melee Defense +1, Including my first core for Edge of the Empire, which got replaced because of a split spine.

Edit for reference I bought all three books on release except the newer Edge Core which was bought about 4 months ago.

Exactly. It's a bit all over the place. We just settled on one and stuck with it to keep it simple. The GM can plan accordingly with the open knowledge of what was agreed.

9 hours ago, Quigonjinnandjuice said:

That's one of the things about heal/harm that is so good. If you have a character far enough into the tree and is skilled in medicine. You really never have to worry about wounds or crits. Unless you happen to get hit for a 151+ before your healer can get to you.

True. But it requires a lot of XP, which can be an issue for XP light games. If you're getting 50XP a session and you play once or twice a week, then it's no problem. My group does lower XP, ~20ish per session (8-12hrs long), and so we have to be more selective about where we spend XP. I've had characters who I've played for 1.5 years, across 15 sessions and they only have like 350xp earned.

13 hours ago, masterstrider said:

Of course, we occasionally used medics and doctors who could heal multiple critical levels in a session, but it was crazy expensive and always left us very short on credits.

What the Empire has public health!

1 hour ago, masterstrider said:

True. But it requires a lot of XP, which can be an issue for XP light games. If you're getting 50XP a session and you play once or twice a week, then it's no problem. My group does lower XP, ~20ish per session (8-12hrs long), and so we have to be more selective about where we spend XP. I've had characters who I've played for 1.5 years, across 15 sessions and they only have like 350xp earned.

Yes, I can see that being rough as far as getting deep into the tree goes. My campaign that we just put on hold has Pc's in the 600 region and it's been going for a year. Some sessions are 15, some can be 40.

We have 2 players with int and heal/harm. It keeps the party very healthy. Hahaha

16 hours ago, masterstrider said:

Exactly. It's a bit all over the place. We just settled on one and stuck with it to keep it simple. The GM can plan accordingly with the open knowledge of what was agreed.

What it is is a change in the rules, AKA errata. FFG found the +1 for Guarded Stance to be too overpowered, and changed it to a static Defense of 1. I wouldn't be surprised that newer prints of F&D and AoR also changed that as well.

On 8/30/2018 at 11:16 AM, Eoen said:

What the Empire has public health!

Nope, not from the Empire.

We used to visit an alcoholic Gand called Dr. Chops. His surgery was basically an organic chop shop, where the operating tables are perpetually covered in blood and gore, and rarely, if ever, cleaned. It's not uncommon to hear the screams of patients being operated on without anesthetics because he'd either run out, or they couldn't afford them.

I'll let that image sink in for a moment.

1 hour ago, masterstrider said:

Nope, not from the Empire.

We used to visit an alcoholic Gand called Dr. Chops. His surgery was basically an organic chop shop, where the operating tables are perpetually covered in blood and gore, and rarely, if ever, cleaned. It's not uncommon to hear the screams of patients being operated on without anesthetics because he'd either run out, or they couldn't afford them.

I'll let that image sink in for a moment.

Your PC’s need to find a new doctor, surgical droids aren’t that expensive.

On 8/27/2018 at 7:58 PM, masterstrider said:

My Soresu Guardian with Int 4 has Heal/Harm and the Control upgrade (recover strain). Amazing power. I can stand there using Supreme Parry/Parry 3/Reflect 3, using the defense maneuver twice to give my opponent +1-2 Setback on their attack and eat damage. Every second round, as I burn strain, I cast Heal and recover 4 strain and 4 wounds (45% chance to cast). It's effectively 20 extra strain and wounds for the guardian. And I can heal my party up to 20 wounds/strain so we can keep fighting.

You need to read up on what defense stance is first before you post. It does not give defense which are black die and it can only be used once per character turn which is once per round. It only upgrades the difficulty die of the person attacking you. Pg. 141 force and destiny core rule book. It also can only be used as a maneuver like it says so it can't be used out of turn like dodge. So if you have both ranks from soresu like my character, and if you spend your maneuver then it upgrades the 2 purple die to two red die. If you are also smart you will have invested in the sense tree all the way down on the far left as well and commit two force die for defense to get an additional 4 upgrades as well but you must have all the xp boxes in the tree to do so. 50 xp for this. This will force whoever is attacking you to roll against 4 red die total. I don't know where you think it adds defense which are black die but your wrong. Things like Cover, armor, certain mods on weapons, and defensive training (from Niman Disciple but does not stack with weapons according to the skill) give defense which are black die, and are all static so you don't activate them.

My character as a soresu defender/armorer has 3 defense and 4 red die as long as he is in defensive stance and has commited two of his force die in the sense tree. Great for being a tank. This is not even talking about his soak or parry/reflect abilites. He's a defensive character not so much of an offensive character. Plan to go into Heal once his force pool hits 4 or higher.

On 8/19/2018 at 7:23 PM, Machaeus said:

But yeah, all Force Powers are "You can only activate the basic power one time." All of them.

Influence basic power can be activated multiple times. I think that might be the only one.

On 8/20/2018 at 3:03 AM, Machaeus said:

I'm aware. I'm just naturally anal ?

Don't think any one of us really want to know!!

On 8/27/2018 at 9:42 PM, masterstrider said:

Sure is. You can take Guarded Stance twice in a round using two maneuvers and they stack. Why? because they give "melee defense +1", and Sam Stewart wrote that "+" modifiers stack, while "x" modifiers do not. But remember, this only adds to your melee defense. It won't do anything for ranged.

Dont know if I posted this earlier but this is a copy of the skill in the book. But ignore this cause its a double post and wont let me delete it.