Wondering if they are going to issue any cost updates upon the App's debut. And if so, how many and what cards are under consideration for being revised from the Gen Con early cost release.

The fact that this 48 hit point, quad dual arc turret, boost-able, white rotate arc, big base and Initiative suited to block monstrosity exists is worrisome. Halfpointing them is only worth 25 points each as well. Might be evidence of poor playtesting, shoddy design, failure to learn from past mistakes, greed to sell, or all the above.

Who Needs Jumpmasters in 2.0?

Freighter Captain (46)
Shield Upgrade (*)

Freighter Captain (46)
Shield Upgrade (*)

Freighter Captain (46)
Shield Upgrade (*)

Freighter Captain (46)
Shield Upgrade (*)

Total: 200

So yeah, I'll offer the Scum Falcon as a candidate that might just need to be priced up. Any other opinions on over or under costed candidates?

2-dice bow tie arcs. I think this is completely fine.

Two die primaries don't intimidate in the least

You want scary? It's howlie swarm or Jonus pentaBarrage. Those guys just plow right through opposing lists

And I LOVE Barrage Rockets with Jonus, but idk if it's entirely fair (esp when you can tech ruthless, ICT, barrage kestal for aces)

Some stuff could also use cost reductions, such as Havoc (utter joke compared to Deathrain), ARCs, a host of rebel gunner/crew etc.

If anything, the jumps need a point reduction, not the falcons a bump up.

Scum han gunner is going up up up.

Defenders, especially Vessery, feel overpriced.

Stealth device hull/shield upgrades are overpriced.

Ezra gunner feels way too expensive.

Luke gunner is too cheap.

Generic Interceptors and Advanced need to come down.

Concussion missiles are too expensive.

VCX and Deci feel very expensive. Especially with the deci losing a crew slot.

Dorsal turret is a joke.

Jamming Beam is three points too expensive.

Iden Versio needs to go up about 10 points or more. Her ability makes swarms CRAZY.

14 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Scum han gunner is going up up up.

While I do think Scum Han Gunner is pretty cheap, the number of ships and opportunity cost of taking him are limited and steep, respectively. The only ship Han gunner fits well on is the Firespray, and taking him in that slot gives up the other potent gunner cards. Additionally, using his ability makes the ship he is on very predictable the following turn. I think he's a decent price given what I said already. I would still take Han at 5 or 6 points, but that is not a good measure of how fair the cost of one card is or is not.

8 minutes ago, Houston8665 said:

Iden Versio needs to go up about 10 points or more. Her ability makes swarms CRAZY.

There is no reality where Iden is worth the same as a Juke Phantom.

My guess is they will change everything that has seen overplay in 2nd edition. Especially the list you presented that shows “evidence  of poor playtesting, shoddy design, failure to learn from past mistakes, greed to sell, or all the above. ” I mean, how they can overlook it now that you’ve fleshed out the problem?

30 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Luke  gunner is too cheap.

Wait, anyone actually tried him out? I feel that he is perfectly unplayable already, as he should be. That is without any play with him, though, if I'm wrong I'll gladly see him go up and up and up.

I think the Scum Falcon is fair, you could also make this list as well:

Han Solo (Scum) — YT-1300 (Scum)54

Shield Upgrade*

Ship Total: 58

Lando Calrissian (Scum) — YT-1300 (Scum)49

Ship Total: 49

L3-37 — YT-1300 (Scum)47

Ship Total: 47

Freighter Captain — YT-1300 (Scum)46

Ship Total: 46

32 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

There is no reality where Iden is worth the same as a Juke Phantom.

In a Howl Swarm Iden is absolutely worth the points. Against a list that can’t reliably put out multiple 3+ hits you can win games with Howl still up pretty easily.

How is this more severe than 5x K-Wings?

Increasing Howlrunner and Iden by 3 points each would be enough to make it impossible to run both in a 7 TIE swarm, and also cut a bit into the upgrades you can take with six elite TIEs. But that also puts them pretty darn close to being twice the cost of an academy TIE, which does feel a little weird.

58 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Scum han gunner is going up up up.

Probably, he's too good for the cost

58 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Defenders, especially Vessery, feel overpriced.

7 HP behind AGL 3 and a free evade every turn? nah, they're fine.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Stealth device hull/shield upgrades are overpriced.

They're mods available to almost every ship. They're also pretty reasonable priced for AGL 1's. As it stands right now, they're expensive, but still viable with a handful of pilots and that's fine for generic upgrades that almost anything can take.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Ezra gunner feels way too expensive.

Broadly agree. He's a Veteran Gunner for 10pts more that gives you +1 force. He could definitely stand to be cheaper without hurting anything.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Luke gunner is too cheap.

Hahahahahahahha...wait you're serious? He's 30pts. To paraphrase from Luke himself "We could buy our own ship for that!" He's unplayably overcosted and probably intentionally so.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Generic Interceptors and Advanced need to come down.

Not really. They could maybe use a small reduction, but I don't see them in any way in desperate need of one.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Concussion missiles are too expensive.

As someone who's played them in about 10ish games, they're 100% fine as is. Reducing them in costs would start to create some real issues with ships balanced around being only 2 attack base like Z-95's or A-Wings.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

VCX and Deci feel very expensive. Especially with the deci losing a crew slot.

Ref previous comment on the TIE Interceptor/Advanced. Not every ship needs to be 100% optimized in costing.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Dorsal turret is a joke.

It's 4pts, it's not supposed to be caviar. It gives you another arc to attack from for a budget cost if you don't feel like the Ion Turret. There is nothing wrong it, it just isn't great and that's probably the point. It's a low cost and unspectacular, but inoffensive, turret.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Jamming Beam is three points too expensive.

I'm 100% fine with the Jam mechanic being garbage. It's completely unfun to play against and hard counters a number of pilot abilities. Jam can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.

3 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Increasing Howlrunner and Iden by 3 points each would be enough to make it impossible to run both in a 7 TIE swarm, and also cut a bit into the upgrades you can take with six elite TIEs. But that also puts them pretty darn close to being twice the cost of an academy TIE, which does feel a little weird.

Does it? Fenn Rau is 22 more points than AP-5 and Luke is 21 more than a Blue Escort. Crazy good pilot abilities and/or force routinely massively pumps cost.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

Does it? Fenn Rau is 22 more points than AP-5 and Luke is 21 more than a Blue Escort. Crazy good pilot abilities and/or force routinely massively pumps cost.

Right, but with neither of those examples are you actually close to literally bringing two ships for the price of the ace. AP-5 and Zeb together would still be 10 points more than Fenn. And even paying a premium for access to the Force, Luke is still 20 pts less expensive than bringing two generic X-wings. Right now two Academies are 6 just pts more than Howlie/Iden.

I don't see how Iden's once per turn ability needs such a massive bump...

If you beating a Tie Swarm (of any size) is reliant on 1 extra damage, maybe the issue isn't Iden.

Just now, InterceptorMad said:

I don't see how Iden's once per turn ability needs such a massive bump...

If you beating a Tie Swarm (of any size) is reliant on 1 extra damage, maybe the issue isn't Iden.

Uh, it's not 1 damage it's 1 instance of damage, so if you roll a full string with proton torps against Howlrunner who blanks and Versio uses his ability, he stopped 4 damage. If it were 1 damage, literally nobody would care about this pilot.

1 minute ago, InterceptorMad said:

I don  't see how Iden's once per turn ability needs such a massive bu  mp... 

I thought her charge wasn't recovering. Is it?

Yeah, Iden's really like two TIE fighter's in one

better if you consider she gives you an extra howlrunner

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Yeah, Iden's really like two TIE fighter's in one

better if you consider she gives you an extra howlrunner

Exactly right - swarms are beastly with the chance for howl to stay as long as possible, throw elusive on her and it's gross.

Wow ok, 2 things I got wrong then lol I thought it was only 1 damage, and I thought it was recurring.

My bad, she's even better than I thought. BUT, she is still 10pts more (but the same Int) as her fellow Infero Squad members.

7 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

7 HP behind AGL 3 and a free evade every turn? nah, they're fine.

They also only have one 3 dice gun. I've watched a few 2.0 games, and a lot of the defender lists finished the game without removing a single enemy ship. They just don't hit hard enough for their points. Vessery himself is ridiculously overpriced, no way is he worth the 10 point premium.

10 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

They're mods available to almost every ship. They're also pretty reasonable priced for AGL 1's. As it stands right now, they're expensive, but still viable with a handful of pilots and that's fine for generic upgrades that almost anything can take.

Hull/shields are priced okay for the low agility ships, but are stupid expensive on the high agility ships. Stealth is just overpriced on everything.

12 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Hahahahahahahha...wait you're serious? He's 30pts. To paraphrase from Luke himself "We could buy our own ship for that!" He's unplayably overcosted and probably intentionally so.

Luke is a fundamentally broken design, where his value is almost entirely based off of your opponents list. Against a list with Vader, Fel, and Whisper he is more than worth his points, as he just shuts those ships down. Luke as designed needs to be so expensive that he is literally never worth his points.

19 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Not really. They could maybe use a small reduction, but I don't see them in any way in desperate need of one.

Eh, they're a bit expensive for ships that are so initiative sensitive. The Interceptors are super prone to being one shot, so they need to dodge. Advanced need their locks to be effective, so they need the ability to secure the locks. I1 sucks for both of these uses.

22 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

As someone who's played them in about 10ish games, they're 100% fine as is. Reducing them in costs would start to create some real issues with ships balanced around being only 2 attack base like Z-95's or A-Wings.

They're pretty expensive for a 3-die attack that requires a lock.

26 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

It's 4pts, it's not supposed to be caviar. It gives you another arc to attack from for a budget cost if you don't feel like the Ion Turret. There is nothing wrong it, it just isn't great and that's probably the point. It's a low cost and unspectacular, but inoffensive, turret.

There is no reason to ever choose this over an Ion turret which is only 2 points more. If you can't spare the two points, you should probably field a different ship.

28 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I'm 100% fine with the Jam mechanic being garbage. It's completely unfun to play against and hard counters a number of pilot abilities. Jam can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.

The Jam mechanic is already safely garbage, which is why the beam is overcosted by three points. Jam tokens are pretty much a joke, no reason to make the beam completely unusable.

11 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Uh, it's not 1 damage it's 1 instance of damage, so if you roll a full string with proton torps against Howlrunner who blanks and Versio uses his ability, he stopped 4 damage. If it were 1 damage, literally nobody would care about this pilot.

Iden stops one attack against a ship that tends to die to single attacks. She's good, but you're already paying 10 points more for her ability compared to the rest of inferno.