I had been thinking about the option for a third faction to be handled as a sort of mercenary faction for ages now. My fiance and I use Scum in this capacity as we only play X-Wing casually at home and have really had a lot of fun with the idea. For something like Armada it would help with immersion for some people as they can accept the Empire or Rebels hiring extra muscle for a critical mission. For people who embrace that there are criminal empires in Star Wars that operate outside of the main factions but command powerful forces of their own (such as the Republic having to ASK the Hutts to travel through there space) they can buy into specific ships to build their ideal scum fleet. My biggest reason for the idea though is it allows production of ships for the game that can be used independently or with one of the current factions. As such players might be okay with a wave or two being these "minor faction" or "unaligned" only as they can still buy something to use in their current lists and factions. Remove the Scum and Villainy problem of X-Wing by making it a non-faction that simply supplements BOTH existing factions.

On 8/18/2018 at 11:37 PM, Marinealver said:

I don't think it is a case against more factions, but to put it straight a case against which ones?

Now true all the smaller criminal/neutral factions have been rolled into on for into some games like X-wing as a third but for games with a larger scope like Rebellion making a "Hutt Cartel" of "Black Sun Syndicate" seems to be odd, yet even when they do it like the "Zahn Consortium" in E@W:FoC it still seem a bit odd how a criminal empire could become the dominant power in the galaxy outliving the Empire and simply drop it all for fear of the Alliance.

Now with 2.0 adding in all these factions from other eras it does seem like a better idea to put them in. However it does seem odd and out of cannon when cross era factions collide, in a way they are more out of place than a typical mirror match. But it makes more sense in large scope games to have Republic battle it out with Empire over entire systems.

I think the middle ground that gets very little attention in gameplay is the idea of minor factions (aka micro factions). These can serve as smaller factions that a Main faction could hire pr could all team up together to form a combined faction. So here is my list of factions.

Original Factions (the ones we have now)

• Galactic Empire
• Rebel Alliance

Main Factions (possible future factions for Armada)

• Galactic Republic
• Confederacy of Independent Systems
• 1st Order
• The Resistance

Minor Factions (smaller factions that can either combine or join a main faction)

• Mandalorian
• Jedi Order
• Sith
• Hutt Cartel
• Black Sun Syndicate
• Zahn Consortium
• Crimson Dragon (even though I don't care for that floppy movie)
• Wookies (they got a space ship)
• Gungans (pending space travel)
• Ewoks? (okay this is stretching it a bit)

The minor factions may have only a single ship and a couple of squadrons but they could add in their own flavor to list building. Now this might have to wait until 2nd edition when FFG puts in a way to correct certain imbalances. But it could work. Maybe if Sith is too strong with 1stOrder they could be taken off the list as legal allies.

So here I love the idea of minor factions being used and some of the examples given. It would also allow FFG to focus on creating interesting content based around a variety of visual style and game mechanics. Have a squadron pack or two with a variety of squads from these different nations. On occasion throw a ship into a wave, or even a whole wave, based around one of these minor powers to help keep the game fresh and alive. Also buys us some time in between movies or shows for new Imperial or Rebels ships to be shown. Seeing as how all the shows I have heard about seem to be focusing on Prequel or Sequel times it might be a long wait till we see anything added in here. Especially seeing as how Rebels didn't add as much to the Empire as they could have and the Solo movie...didn't add anything.

On 8/19/2018 at 4:24 AM, ISD Avenger said:

I can’t see it happening.

While I like the Chiss, I still think it’s a bit too niche.

Id personally favour the old EU Confederation led by Turr Phennir. This had Bothans, Corellians etc. But again, probably too niche & old EU as well.

If anything do an ‘unaligned’ ‘faction’ that can either do a full fleet alone or join existing factions. I guess this way you could do the odd Mandolorian ship, next wave Corellian, next Zaan Consortium etc etc

I think the Chiss have been gaining a lot more attention in the current cannon between their mentions in Rebels, books, and comics. Still not a common name to the casual fan who only cares to watch the movies though. From what I have seen though a lot of people who get into this game either never were super casual fans or they don't stay that way for long. An example would even be my brother who loved the movies but hardly noticed anything else until recently. Now he is reading up on all the side stories because he saw an interesting figure of mine and was curious where the heck it came from in the story. So there is room for the game to also raise awareness for the franchise as a whole and get people interested in all the other content available.

29 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Yes, yes, you hate a thing. I'm glad you have an opinion, can you try reiterating your point without enough salt to choke a deer with?

Or you could read a post without getting offended. Looks like you are the one munching on salt cakes so here is the TL:DR

Sequel and Prequel movies still suck, the ships are still awesome and should be in Armada.

"There is no such thing as to much. We need more factions." -anonymous Armada player

1 hour ago, fistfulofforce said:

"There is no such thing as to much. We need more factions." -anonymous Armada player

"There is no such thing as too much. We need more ships and new factions. We need a 10ft by 20ft game table for 10 players, with a complex ceiling mounted pulley system that allows access to the center of the table." - Me

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Or you could read a post without getting offended. Looks like you are the one munching on salt cakes so here is the TL:DR

Sequel and Prequel movies still suck, the ships are still awesome and should be in Armada.

I only agree with you about 67%. Episode III had some flaws but it is a very good movie in my opinion. The opening scene being the Battle of Coruscant is fantastic, which makes me wish the Sequel Trilogy actually had space battles. Rogue One was the only Disney movie that I enjoyed, giving a lot of credit to Gareth Edwards for his directing.

I don't own the Last Jedi, and frankly it made me dislike the Force Awakens like an aftershock from an earthquake.

Actually it would be 71%, I forgot about Solo (first Star Wars movie I haven't seen in theaters).

Episode 3 had the best space combat scene followed closely almost a tie with Rogue One.

I would love to see prequel ships. The banking clan frigate is so beautiful I would trade my wife for one.

Rather than a third faction I’d like to see them just do different eras with no overlap.

Then you could essentially have Armada, Armada 2.0, and Armada 3.0

FFG hasn’t figured out how to do 3rd factions yet. Granted there’s only been one example, but Scum and Villainy wrecked X-wing with the “look at how great the new stuff is!” vibe.

1 hour ago, fistfulofforce said:

Episode 3 had the best space combat scene followed closely almost a tie with Rogue One.

I would love to see prequel ships. The banking clan frigate is so beautiful I would trade my wife for one.

That's a huge compliment to your wife, a Munificent-class star frigate costs around 57 million credits! ?

On 8/18/2018 at 7:25 PM, Piratical Moustache said:

I think that if those Factions are used they'll be a separate "version" of Armada...

Why? This is not the precedence that FFG has set with Destiny and X-Wing 2.0, where games can be cross-era and you can see Republic stuff pitted against First Order stuff.

If the First Order, Resistance, Republic, or CIS are added as unique factions into Armada, I'm sure they'll be playable in the standard game against whatever. I mean, thematically, a Republic Fleet vs an Empire Fleet isn't any more weird than a Raddus Fleet vs an Ackbar Fleet.

I think the biggest issue with any new, separate faction is just logistics.

The existing factions have a huge selection of units. Rebs have 10 ships, 10 squads, and 10 commanders. Imps have 8 ships, 11 squads, and 10 commanders?

A new faction would need like 1 large, 1 med, 2 small ships, 1 flotilla, 4 squads, and like 5 commanders to even be able to build a playable list against the existing factions. That's asking for 3 waves of products for one faction in a pretty short time period to make them playable. Even then, the choices of actual competitive lists would be small. The number of options you could really assemble compared to the existing factions would be narrow, and the meta would be extremely narrow. The counters to those limited build options would be well known and the faction would likely struggle in competition only hurting sales (who wants to devote a lot of money to something that has a built in handicap?).

On top of that, FFG would basically need to ignore the existing factions to devote the resources to create the new faction...and that would likely upset at least some of the existing players. And with the rate of development and production in Armada that we've seen so far, how long would existing factions need to wait to see new content?

Beyond that, new factions aren't likely to bring any more players to the game, and few players collect both existing factions. So it's a lot of extra work, that complicates all future waves, and for very little potential payout. Med/high risk for low reward isn't the best business model.

Again, this is why I think it makes way more sense to move into the new trilogy as extensions of the existing factions.

2 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

I think the biggest issue with any new, separate faction is just logistics.

The existing factions have a huge selection of units. Rebs have 10 ships, 10 squads, and 10 commanders. Imps have 8 ships, 11 squads, and 10 commanders?

A new faction would need like 1 large, 1 med, 2 small ships, 1 flotilla, 4 squads, and like 5 commanders to even be able to build a playable list against the existing factions. That's asking for 3 waves of products for one faction in a pretty short time period to make them playable. Even then, the choices of actual competitive lists would be small. The number of options you could really assemble compared to the existing factions would be narrow, and the meta would be extremely narrow. The counters to those limited build options would be well known and the faction would likely struggle in competition only hurting sales (who wants to devote a lot of money to something that has a built in handicap?).

On top of that, FFG would basically need to ignore the existing factions to devote the resources to create the new faction...and that would likely upset at least some of the existing players. And with the rate of development and production in Armada that we've seen so far, how long would existing factions need to wait to see new content?

Beyond that, new factions aren't likely to bring any more players to the game, and few players collect both existing factions. So it's a lot of extra work, that complicates all future waves, and for very little potential payout. Med/high risk for low reward isn't the best business model.

Again, this is why I think it makes way more sense to move into the new trilogy as extensions of the existing factions.

Well reasoned statements, really it comes down to FFG spending more time and resources on Armada for a 3rd Faction to work.

I have collected both factions so far, originally because the Rebels had cards I wanted but then it was about me being able to have more game options.

If a 3rd Faction used existing ships like the Corporate Sector Authority that would defeat most of the production problems, and offer interesting fleet list possibilities, like VSDs escorted by CR90s.

I mean who wouldn't want to play the Iron Bank in space?

"You have missed too many interest payments, prepare to have your fleet assets liquidated."

37 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Well reasoned statements, really it comes down to FFG spending more time and resources on Armada for a 3rd Faction to work.

Glass half full perspective. Giving us a third faction means they are spending more time and resources on Armada and we'll no long go months without an update?

43 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Glass half full perspective. Giving us a third faction means they are spending more time and resources on Armada and we'll no long go months without an update?

The SSD expansion despite the mixed player responses does at least show 1 thing: FFG has not abandoned Armada, and I've been more hopeful about the game's future since the announcement.

On 8/20/2018 at 10:38 PM, Marinealver said:

Or you could read a post without getting offended. Looks like you are the one munching on salt cakes so here is the TL:DR

Sequel and Prequel movies still suck, the ships are still awesome and should be in Armada.

Ep. III is amazing. The only issue with it that it had to be around 2 hours so many things had to be cut out. Read the book, it has all the cut-off scenes and the whole movie will make much ore sense. I dare to say it is the best Star Wars book (after the Thrawn-trilogy of course :P) and I know what I'm talking about, I've read almost all of them.

1 hour ago, Norell said:

Ep. III is amazing. The only issue with it that it had to be around 2 hours so many things had to be cut out. Read the book, it has all the cut-off scenes and the whole movie will make much ore sense. I dare to say it is the best Star Wars book (after the Thrawn-trilogy of course :P) and I know what I'm talking about, I've read almost all of them.

okay, that's nice but back on topic.

Prequel and Sequel Ships in Armada: For or Against?

I say For on both accounts!

Prequel for, if you must. Sequel strongly against. They are completely off-balance and ridiculously oversized. Just think about the opening of TLJ. One X-Wing can destroy a capital ship, which is in exchange can one-shot a medium-sized ship... Wut? O.o

1 hour ago, Norell said:

Prequel for, if you must. Sequel strongly against. They are completely off-balance and ridiculously oversized. Just think about the opening of TLJ. One X-Wing can destroy a capital ship, which is in exchange can one-shot a medium-sized ship... Wut? O.o

Watch it again, a single X-Wing did not destroy a capital ship, a single X-Wing took out a capital ship's anti-squad weapons so a bomber wing could come in for a run and a single heavy bomber that took out a capital ship.

Ridiculous would be a single A-Wing, smallest ship in their fleet, taking out the largest capital ship in the Imperial Navy.

On 8/21/2018 at 2:41 AM, Piratical Moustache said:

That's a huge compliment to your wife, a Munificent-class star frigate costs around 57 million credits! ?

or just 20.55€ for mel's version in WNVP, which is much less complimental...?

Chiss ships from the Empire of the Hand are all up in thrawn's revenge mod for FoC, Ascendancy/Chaf/Syndic/Phalanx for large, Nuruodo/Warlord/Au'riette/Decimator/Massias for medium, Asdroni/Kariek/Vigilance for small bases, Furion/Syca Bombers, Nsiss/Scariss Clawcraft and Krsiss Interceptor for fighters, and could go alone for 3rd faction, but it is and will stays fanwork I think.

Zann consortium seems more of a thing, as it is reusing much republic/empire/rebels ships and squadrons, that have already gone out (TIEs, Lambdas, Ywings, Victory, CR90, Nebs....) or could go out in the future as multi-faction ships (acclamator/broadside/Tartan...)

that would provide "regular" players that have one existing faction with material for their fleets during startup build of that new range.

but IMHO, if there are more faction, that will be with a new starter pack CIS/Republic for the clone wars (with same or different rules, can even not be labelled "Armada")

Sequel ships battles are even more assymetrical that Ep 4-6, can not see how it could get on the table and give Resistance fleet the slightest chance of not being tabled turn 3 at best. (unless table is long enough to be able to run the whole game through)

but "do we need more faction", my answer is Yea, same with any question starting with "Do we need more...?" referring to Armada

I'm for prequal for sure, sequel, I'm kinda on the fence.

Honestly I would prefer to see them both released as dual/multi faction. Republic/Imperial surplus, CIS/Rebel Surplus, Resistance/New Republic/Rebel Prototype, & First Order/Imperial Prototype.

Release two new campaigns one for sequel one for prequal, providing cardboard for SOME existing Rebel and Imperial ships to be used for the other factions. CIS Prototype/Rebel/Resistance Surplus, & Republic Prototype, Imperial, First Order Surplus.

The ludicrous stats for the sequel trilogy can be mostly ignored in favor of game balance. You can also throw in a rules that you are only allowed one ship with "Prototype" in the ship class name, per fleet, any ship with "Surplus" in its ship class name begins play with one face up damage card, (drawn at random), to reflect age/quirks.

Using this method you would get to 6 viable factions much faster, and would allow for releases to be of interest to existing Rebel/Imperial players, who have no interest in collecting other factions.

Just my 2 credits.

I'm a purist. I don't like Imperial versus Imperial games or Rebel versus Rebel.

If it was down to me, which of course it isn't, I'd restrict games to Imperial versus Rebel, First Order versus Resistance and Republic versus CIS.

For me Scum and Villainy was one of the things that ruined X Wing. Why turn up with TIE fighters when you can use some obscure ship that appeared in a comic once which very few people over the age of 35 have even heard of? Especially when it has uber abilities that can wipe out early wave stuff like swatting flies. As the waves went on the games bore so little resemblance to Star Wars it was ridiculous.

I believe Scum and Villainy is literally the LAST thing this game needs.

18 hours ago, Cusm said:

Watch it again, a single X-Wing did not destroy a capital ship, a single X-Wing took out a capital ship's anti-squad weapons so a bomber wing could come in for a run and a single heavy bomber that took out a capital ship.

Ridiculous would be a single A-Wing, smallest ship in their fleet, taking out the largest capital ship in the Imperial Navy.

Well it was at least 2 A-wings that took down the shields. The Executor did manage to destroy an X-wing squadron (who was on their last hit point) and score a hit on A-wing squadron before it died.

17 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I'm for prequal for sure, sequel, I'm kinda on the fence.

Honestly I would prefer to see them both released as dual/multi faction. Republic/Imperial surplus, CIS/Rebel Surplus, Resistance/New Republic/Rebel Prototype, & First Order/Imperial Prototype.

Release two new campaigns one for sequel one for prequal, providing cardboard for SOME existing Rebel and Imperial ships to be used for the other factions. CIS Prototype/Rebel/Resistance Surplus, & Republic Prototype, Imperial, First Order Surplus.

The ludicrous stats for the sequel trilogy can be mostly ignored in favor of game balance. You can also throw in a rules that you are only allowed one ship with "Prototype" in the ship class name, per fleet, any ship with "Surplus" in its ship class name begins play with one face up damage card, (drawn at random), to reflect age/quirks.

Using this method you would get to 6 viable factions much faster, and would allow for releases to be of interest to existing Rebel/Imperial players, who have no interest in collecting other factions.

Just my 2 credits.

Yeah we know Jar Jar Abrams loves his Thigg Thadd Thhips (especially if it is USS Giant Evil Ship). That being said and since Armada is more generous with the scale there is no reason for the 1st Order RSD to be any larger than the ISD. The Dreadnoughts and that dumb space wing sure they need to be huge ship base but an RSD can easily be a large base and just up the hull, stats, and point cost on the stupid things.

5 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Well it was at least 2 A-wings that took down the shields. The Executor did manage to destroy an X-wing squadron (who was on their last hit point) and score a hit on A-wing squadron before it died.

Yeah we know Jar Jar Abrams loves his Thigg Thadd Thhips (especially if it is USS Giant Evil Ship). That being said and since Armada is more generous with the scale there is no reason for the 1st Order RSD to be any larger than the ISD. The Dreadnoughts and that dumb space wing sure they need to be huge ship base but an RSD can easily be a large base and just up the hull, stats, and point cost on the stupid things.

To be fair, JJ only gave us the overpowered RSD, the Mandator, and the Mega Jagunda Monster SD flying wing, was all Rain man!

3 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

To be fair, JJ only gave us the overpowered RSD, the Mandator, and the Mega Jagunda Monster SD flying wing, was all Rain man!

true, but I still can't forgive him for this monstrosity.

uh-oh Star Trek post in a Star Wars Forums

10 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Well it was at least 2 A-wings that took down the shields. The Executor did manage to destroy an X-wing squadron (who was on their last hit point) and score a hit on A-wing squadron before it died.

To be fair to the Executor Ackbar had around 10 MC80s crack open just the bridge shields so the fighters could do a strafing run. A single A-Wing did not bring down a SSD.

1 minute ago, Piratical Moustache said:

To be fair to the Executor Ackbar had around 10 MC80s crack open just the bridge shields so the fighters could do a strafing run. A single A-Wing did not bring down a SSD.

yeah but we wern't shown that, we were shown A-wing. Heck we didn't see the B-wings shoot anything. Hey Lucas, Edit the film so the B-wings destroy the Shield Generators and then let the A-wing crash into the bridge!