A pair of E-wings were some of my first purchases for x-wing when I started playing just after wave 4 dropped (longer ago than I care to admit) and they’ve never really seen much action. Now that they’ve been revamped for 2.0 I wanted to see if I could get some discussion going for builds playstyle etc. I wanted to start off discussing the upgrade options for the ship in general.

System : This is a great slot and I don’t think it will ever be empty on any ship that has it, some difficult decisions to be made here…

Fire Control System (3) – I feel like this might end up stapled to E-wings, at 3 points and combined with experimental scanners it’s a good, cheap option for double modded attacks and means that you can get rerolls when the enemy is at R1 where you can’t normally lock. The downside however is that you are telegraphing your target and its only one reroll unless you spend the lock.

Collision Detector (5) – I think this is going to be a really interesting upgrade, as much for the threat of being able to fly over/onto a rock and still take actions and get a shot as actually doing it. If your opponent forgets you have it, you could really punish them and they do remember its there it gives them more to consider when you’re flying near obstacles meaning that there is less chance of them correctly guessing where you’re going. Definitely an upgrade I’d consider for 5 points!

Advance Sensors (8) – Always a good upgrade, a little more expensive now at 8 points but still an excellent choice, getting action before a red move or a bump is great!

Astromechs: There’s quite a few of these little guys and again a lot of great choices.

Chopper (2) – I’m not sure chopper is going to be a common choice for E-wings but there could be an interesting combo with spending shields to recharge a stealth device, probably not though!

R4 (2) – 2 point for blue 2 turns and banks and much easier access to those amazing 1 turns (going form red to white), yes please! The only tiny downside to this guy is that your 1 turns don’t recharge elusive but I’m pretty sure I can live with that.

R3 (3) – R3 is looking like my favourite mech at the moment, especially when combined with FCS and/or torps. Your targets are much less predictable and against 2 ship lists you’ve got rereolls for days.

Hull/shield Repair Mechs (5/6/7/8) – All seem pretty solid choices for a bit of extra survivability, I’m not sure if the action cost on the hull droids or the disarm token is better on the shield droids is preferable. Either way I think I would be combining the hull droids at least with a hull upgrade but the shield ones maybe don’t need the shield upgrade quite as much. Quite expensive all round but great for adding a bit of survivability.

Torpedoes: great for adding a bit of punch to an expensive ship needing to pull its weight and combine well with experimental scanners.

Adv. Proton (6) – Up close and personal is probably not where E-wings want to be but then again taking these might make opponents think twice about rushing int R1, 6 points seems a bit steep for 1 extra red dice one per game (could be used once more with chopper I guess).

Ion (6) – Personally I think it’s going to take some convincing to bring me round to ion weapons, could be good against low agility ships I suppose.

Protons (9) – I feel like this is where its at for E-wings; long range, great with experimental scanners and really pack a punch with double mods. The downside to these bad boys is they don’t come cheap on a ship that’s already costing 70+ points!

Modifications : Really depends on how many points you’re willing to put into a ship but could be pivotal at the right moment!

Munitions Failsafe (2) - Eh could be useful I guess but probably won't be something I’ll be using.

Electronic Baffle (2) – Taking damage to remove stress doesn’t seem like something a 3 agility ship want to be doing if I’m honest, especially when you could have an R4 for the same points.

Static Discharge Vanes – Could be handy, especially if you’re taking an R4 Mech

Hull/Shield Upgrade (7/8) – Good options but you’ll be paying through the nose for them better when combined with the repair mechs I suppose.

Stealth Device (8) – Honestly I think id rather take the hull or shield for the same or less points, maybe ok when combined with elusive and/or chopper but then things start to get expensive.

Afterburners (8) – Expensive but a great ability especially on higher initiative like Corran allowing double reposition and target lock (albeit in a specific order). I don’t think you can go wrong with this if you have the points.

Talents: I’ll just go through what I think will work best of these but if there are any that I don’t cover feel free to change my mind! Mostly talents seem to make the ship either more survivable or hit a bit harder which is never bad.

Crack Shot (1) – for the cost I don’t think this will ever be a bad option.

Predator (2) - not a bad shout for the cost but I think it’ll be my go to for Corran if he doesn’t have FCS as it gives rerolls of both attacks when using his ability.

Daredevil (3) - Definitely some interesting possibilities with this but I think I would also be taking an R4 so the next turn wasn’t too predictable.

Elusive (3) – Anything that keeps these expensive ships alive longer is ok in my book, plus we now have those tasty 3 sloops to recharge it with.

Lone Wolf (4) – See elusive, a bit more flexible as it can be use offensively but the restriction means I’d probably only take it in smaller squads.

Outmaneuver (6) – Great for making these expensive, manoeuvrable ships pull their weight that bit better.

With that out of the way some interesting upgrade combos I want to try that should be good (or at least funny to annoy people with):

1. The “Rerolls for Days” - R3, FCS and possibly some Torps with whatever talent you fancy.

2. The “Alpha” - Proton torps and crack shot.

3. The “I go where I want” – Collision detector, Afterburners R4 and Daredevil.

4. The Tank – Hull/Shield, repair droid and elusive with whatever system you like best.

5. The “This probably wont work but oh well” – Chopper, Stealth, Elusive and a system option (Probably collision detector for the extra charges)

6. The “oh god not Corran F***ing Horn again” – Corran (duh) with predator, collision detector, afterburners and probably and R2 unit (like the good old days)

Feel free to share some of your builds too I’m interested to see what people are thinking with these shiny new E-Wings!

With that in mind here is what I think I will try first:

Let the discussion commence!

Mostly for jank, I really want to roll Jan with these guys

They have a uniquely easy access to full mods that makes an effective four die primary quite potent

Problem is they're very expensive (one point short of Luke!), and I do believe the generics are overpriced

Given how stupid crits are in 2nd Ed, I believe Gavin is worth a look

Anyway, here's a start

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!46:-1,-1,54,-1,107,156:-1:-1:;23:-1,113,-1,4,-1:-1:-1:;4:-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I haven’t gotten to the E-Wing yet in my testing, but my first efforts are gonna focus on the “Rerolls for Days” build. FCS and R3 for 6 points seems like a really good bargain, particularly when paired with the E-Wing’s Experimental Scanners. I’m hoping that build on Gavin Darklighter will prove to be effective.

Any of them with proton torpedoes is fairly good. I usually add r3 if I’m doing that. Iden Versio really hurts this build though and I think he will be too popular.

Corran with Daredevil, advanced sensors and r4 is hilarious. You can arc-dodge better than anything i5 in the game.

1 hour ago, TyrantLord73 said:

Talents: I’ll just go through what I think will work best of these but if there are any that I don’t cover feel free to change my mind! Mostly talents seem to make the ship either more survivable or hit a bit harder which is never bad.

Crack Shot (1) – for the cost I don’t think this will ever be a bad option.

Predator (2) - not a bad shout for the cost but I think it’ll be my go to for Corran if he doesn’t have FCS as it gives rerolls of both attacks when using his ability.

Daredevil (3) - Definitely some interesting possibilities with this but I think I would also be taking an R4 so the next turn wasn’t too predictable.

Elusive (3) – Anything that keeps these expensive ships alive longer is ok in my book, plus we now have those tasty 3 sloops to recharge it with.

Lone Wolf (4) – See elusive, a bit more flexible as it can be use offensively but the restriction means I’d probably only take it in smaller squads.

Outmaneuver (6) – Great for making these expensive, manoeuvrable ships pull their weight that bit better.

Why no Marksmanship? It could be potent paired with FCS and isn't limited by charges or to primary attacks only. Still has the Bullseye arc limitation
though.

14 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Iden Versio really hurts this build though and I think he will be too popular

Small thing, but Iden Versio is a she.

While squad building, they start feeling expensive quickly. But I have two E-Wing models that I’ve never flown so...

E-wings 2.0

(63) Rogue Squadron Escort
(3) R3 Astromech
(3) Fire-Control System
(1) Marksmanship
Points 70

(63) Rogue Squadron Escort
(3) R3 Astromech
(3) Fire-Control System
(1) Marksmanship
Points 70

(38) Kyle Katarn
(12) Moldy Crow
(10) Perceptive Copilot
Points 60

Total points: 200

R3 allows two target locks. E-wings have built in ship ability of acquiring locks at range 2 to infinity. Their stat line is 3/3/3/3 like old defenders and their dial is pretty amazing (but no white k-turn so not really a Defender). FCS allows one die to be rerolled against a defender you have locked, and each E will have two potential defenders to choose from, making them less predictable. Kyle Katarn is a focus factory. The Moldy title allows him to hold onto two of them at the end of the round and Perceptive Copilot gets two tokens each time you focus. Kyle’s ability lets you transfer a focus to a friendly ship. So the E-wings go into combat with a lock they got at long range, can do a reposition or evade or focus action, and one of them can receive another focus token from Kyle.

What makes each of the 4 pilots have a unique purpose over the others?

Knave Squadron Pilot: Cheap option, flys with I2 ships. A simple Knave with R4 and FCS is exactly 1/3 of your list, with an AMAZING dogfighing dial, (white 1 hards, 3 hards and 5 straight, 9 green maneuvers, 4k/3sloop). It's too expensive, however, to run 3 torpedo ships, but if you're just shy of being able to pull off a build with Rogue Squadron, Knave might be able to fit it in.

Rogue Squadron pilot: Only 2 points more to bid for the top generic init in the game and gain a talent slot. LRS means they dont actually need top int to get locks for torpedos and can easilly double mod a 4 die attack on the first round of combat. Astromech may depend on system- R4 with Advanced Sensors as a super maneuverable knife fighter, R2/R2d2 and Colision detector or FCS for a hit and run (boom and zoom) approach, Chopper/Elusive and Advanced Sensors for a complicated setup infinite torpedos build. Electronic Baffle may also be in consideration here- it allows a non R4, Advanced sensor Ewing use the 1 hard or Kturn multiple turns in a row (or threaten to do so) at the cost of health. Not something to use often, but it's only two points, so a bargain for a 3 agility ship's mod slot.

Gavin Darklighter is a swarm enhancer. He wants to be cheap, to fit as many other ships in the list as possible, but he also knows that he's a priority target, and needs to stayalive, especially since he has to be head-on to the combat to use his ability. Naked, he can run with 5 bandits (with 17 points), 4 phoenix squadrons (with 12 points), or 3 Xwings or Bwings (9 or 6 points left). Advanced sensors, FCS,

And of course Corran, at I5 with the rest of the true aces (but not the super aces). Traditionally Corran has been an R2 regenerator, doubling down on weapon disabled the turn after he double taps. But Corran may also enjoy the Advanced Sensor R4 knife fighter build.

Man, here I was thinking my "put R3 and FCS on an E-Wing" was just one of my usual stupid ideas, glad to see that other people think it might work! Using R3 gives options when you lock them on turn 1 from across the board, instead of forcing a single target

I'm thinking of going with something like this:

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!22:119,113,-1,4,-1:-1:-1:;53:100:-1:-1:;53:100:-1:-1:;57:100,-1:-1:-1:;57:100,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

It's a mini-swarm of A-Wings and Headhunters accompanying Gavin. I like the idea of equipping the mini-swarm with Homing Missiles in order to compensate for the lack of attack dice.

I'm definitely open to other ideas for the talent to use on Gavin, though.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Mostly for jank, I really want to roll Jan with these guys

They have a uniquely easy access to full mods that makes an effective four die primary quite potent

Problem is they're very expensive (one point short of Luke!), and I do believe the generics are overpriced

Given how stupid crits are in 2nd Ed, I believe Gavin is worth a look

Anyway, here's a start

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!46:-1,-1,54,-1,107,156:-1:-1:;23:-1,113,-1,4,-1:-1:-1:;4:-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Speaking of Gavin...lets say he accompanied by some friendly Homing Missile carriers. When they fire and the defender decides to suffer a hit, can that be flipped to a crit? Or is a "result" different from suffering damage?

13 minutes ago, piznit said:

Speaking of Gavin...lets say he accompanied by some friendly Homing Missile carriers. When they fire and the defender decides to suffer a hit, can that be flipped to a crit? Or is a "result" different from suffering damage?

A result is a rolled die, and it is definitely not the same thing suffering damage (after all, you don't automatically take damage every time your opponent rolls a hit, unless you are @ficklegreendice ). Taking the elective damage on Homing Missile skips the dice phase altogether, so there are no results for Gavin to change.

18 minutes ago, piznit said:

Speaking of Gavin...lets say he accompanied by some friendly Homing Missile carriers. When they fire and the defender decides to suffer a hit, can that be flipped to a crit? Or is a "result" different from suffering damage?

I don't think so, cuz Gavin's ability is to change 1 die result. The hit elected by homing missiles isn't a die result.

18 minutes ago, piznit said:

Speaking of Gavin...lets say he accompanied by some friendly Homing Missile carriers. When they fire and the defender decides to suffer a hit, can that be flipped to a crit? Or is a "result" different from suffering damage?

Huh. That hadn't even occurred to me. That said, I'm pretty sure a result is different from damage. You evaluate results first, and any uncanceled hit or crit results are resolved into the appropriate type of damage.

Well screw that then!

Here's something I started thinking about. When you attempt a red action and it fails, you don't take the stress. When you have Composure, if fail an action and don't have a green token, you can perform a focus action.

Thus, if an E-Wing has a lot of potential if they can intentionally fail a Target Lock action. If they have Composure, they can perform a boost or barrel roll, link into a Lock, fail the lock (to keep their lock from a previous turn), and then perform a white Focus action.

I'm 50/50 on whether the new Lock action allows you to intentionally fail. However, if you can, getting both a focus and a reposition without stress is... potent.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's something I started thinking about. When you attempt a red action and it fails, you don't take the stress. When you have Composure, if fail an action and don't have a green token, you can perform a focus action.

Thus, if an E-Wing has a lot of potential if they can intentionally fail a Target Lock action. If they have Composure, they can perform a boost or barrel roll, link into a Lock, fail the lock (to keep their lock from a previous turn), and then perform a white Focus action.

I'm 50/50 on whether the new Lock action allows you to intentionally fail. However, if you can, getting both a focus and a reposition without stress is... potent.

I read about that in another thread and was amazed. All my Corran builds have composure now. Has it been clarified yet?

for example, TL first turn. A few turns later you realize if you boost you’ll end up at R1 of the enemy you already have locked. You boost and link to a TL on that R1 guy. You fail and receive a focus via composure.

That’s the plan, right?

3 hours ago, TyrantLord73 said:

Talents: I’ll just go through what I think will work best of these but if there are any that I don’t cover feel free to change my mind! Mostly talents seem to make the ship either more survivable or hit a bit harder which is never bad.

Crack Shot (1) – for the cost I don’t think this will ever be a bad option.

Predator (2) - not a bad shout for the cost but I think it’ll be my go to for Corran if he doesn’t have FCS as it gives rerolls of both attacks when using his ability. 

Daredevil (3) - Definitely some interesting possibilities with this but I think I would also be taking an R4 so the next turn wasn’t too predictable.

Elusive (3) – Anything that keeps these expensive ships alive longer is ok in my book, plus we now have those tasty 3 sloops to recharge it with.

Lone Wolf (4) – See elusive, a bit more flexible as it can be use offensively but the restriction means I’d probably only take it in smaller squads.

Outmaneuver (6) – Great for making these expensive, manoeuvrable ships pull their weight that bit better.

I wonder if Marksmanship is worth considering on Corran Horn, particularly if he already has FCS. A second attack is a lot more likely to be against a token-less and un-shielded target, thus much more likely to actually force some crits. I kinda like the thought of it.

Def wouldn't run Gaven with a swarm. You need ships worth a **** if you're gonna support them, plus Gaven works on himself

Apparently you can choose to fail a Lock action by simply not selecting anything so composure on an E-Wing is GREAT.

4 minutes ago, Houston8665 said:

From the way the TL action is written now I don’t think you can fail. It say in the rules reference that you declare the TL action then check range to everything and pick one to lock. Since you can lock objects there will always be something to lock on to.

LOCK (?)
Ships can lock to use their computer to acquire targeting data on environmental hazards or other ships. When a ship performs a ? action, it acquires a lock. A locking ship is a ship that is attempting to acquire a lock by performing the following steps:
1. Measure range from the locking ship to any number of objects.
2. Choose another object at range 0–3.
3. Assign a lock token to it with the number matching the ID marker of the locking ship.

Personally, that's mostly how I've read it. It says "choose" rather than "you may choose," but the extra line "when no object is chosen, the lock fails" in the extra lines adds at least enough ambiguity that It's worth getting a solid consensus behind it.

It's good with regards to E-Wings, but a shame for other ships. Composure would have been a decent pick for normal ships like TIE Advanced. Attempt the Lock, and if it fails, at least you get a focus. I think it's certainly in the best interest of the game to prefer rulings which don't lead to easy white reposition + focus on ships.

It's worth noting that the TIE Interceptor and A-Wing can do it. It's harder there, however, since you'll need to fail a movement action like a boost or barrel roll (and A-Wings can only do it with a failed Boost). A-Wing can Lock, however, then fail a Boost to take a focus action without stress. Say... you could attempt to boost into your own ships and fail. The more I think about this, the easier I think it'll be to pull off.

This is the thread

2 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

I read about that in another thread and was amazed. All my Corran builds have composure now. Has it been clarified yet?

This is the thread I was talking about:

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Personally, that's mostly how I've read it. It says "choose" rather than "you may choose," but the extra line "when no object is chosen, the lock fails" in the extra lines adds at least enough ambiguity that It's worth getting a solid consensus behind it.

Yeah I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work. You work through the 3 steps of the Lock action when you take it. You don’t have a choice on the choose. You have to do it so you have to acquire a lock on the object you chose.

The “fail” text is there for if you can’t actually choose IMO. This is highly unlikely (especially with E-Wings) as there will almost always be an object in the board you can lock.

This will probably be one that is debated until there is a clarification. Composure is a pretty stupid card for that reason. I get what they were trying to do but it is very abusable.

Corran is actually at a balanced point cost. All the other pilots are overpriced. Thankfully, he'll be hard to fly now, so hopefully we won't see him very often. I would love to see the generic E-wings price reduced, cause it would be a unique ship, what with its focus on target locks. Priced at 55 points instead of 61 they become balanced with generic X-wings. And that's from a MathyWing calculation.

6 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

generic E-wings price reduced, cause it would be a unique ship, what with its focus on target locks. Priced at 55 points instead of 61 they become balanced with generic X-wings. And that's from a MathyWing calculation.

If I understand it right, it's a calculation based entirely on jousting value. So a good tool to compare jousters.

IMO, you can say that the Knave will be quite used as a jouster, because of its low Initiative (so yes, Knave is overpriced a bit) making it difficult to use repositionning and the now quite good dial.

But that statement isn't valid any more for Rogue Escort, which at Initiative 4, with a good bid, plays after all generics and a good amount of named pilots.
This means that the ships value equals its jousting value, plus a certain amount based on the fact that it can reposition quite effectively to avoid arcs and/or get better shot opportunities. And Rogue Escort and named pilots, due to this, may be priced correctly (in fact, only 2 pts to upgrade from Knave to Rogue is a ridiculously low price).

I'd say the E-wing's costing is pretty consistent with the lore.

A powerful ship (nice dial, stats and upgrades) but plagued with mechanical and design problems (overcosted) which made it not very popular.

21 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

design problems (overcosted)

Nothing in any lore would explain a ship being overcosted, that's just plain dumb. The ship stats may be dependent to the lore, but when it comes to cost, then, as @ficklegreendice would say, gameplay(here game balance)>>>>>>fluff

But IMHO some specialist ships (arc dodgers, advanced fighters) should have only high Initiative pilots. Getting rid of the low Init generic for this type of ship wouldn't be a loss.