On 8/25/2018 at 9:35 AM, ZeiramMR said:

One thing to note is that the core Armored Clothing takes an Average check to find but takes a thorough pat-down/search of the person. This attachment just has the Average (moddable to Hard) check without the extra qualifiers, which I'm going to interpret as being detectable without a formal search. Given this mod is cheaper and less rare than listed Armored Clothing, it needs something as a trade-off.

Oddly enough, that piece of text didn't make it into the F&D entry on Armored Clothing.

However, in my initial post I was going by the thinking that the Armor Insert was one Difficulty easier to detect that Armored Clothing but I see now that that is in error. The Mod that improves the concealment of the armor actually makes equal in every way than Armored Clothing (except for the lack of a HP) and at half the cost (if applied to a base layer of Heavy Clothing). And then you Mod it to make it better than Armored Clothing with Superior Customization.

Considering all this, I may hold off on buying this in my group to avoid opening the can of worms. I was going to apply it to the Tracker Utility Vest but I also imagine everyone choosing a 0-1 soak item to use it with.

2 hours ago, Lukey84 said:

Considering all this, I may hold off on buying this in my group to avoid opening the can of worms. I was going to apply it to the Tracker Utility Vest but I also imagine everyone choosing a 0-1 soak item to use it with.

Well it does have limitations that make it not mountable on the Tracker utility vest. The vest is a utility item like a backpack or utility belt. These need to go on clothing. So you can't put them on the vest alone.

It's one Item you can ban until you know what to do with it.

I'm kicking around ideas myself. Which right now are:

• Increasing cost/rarity
• Removing most/all Mod options
• Altering mod options to make them more a trade-off over a total upgrade.
• Making the Attachment one-use. You install it, and it's part of those clothes forever, or can be removed, but can never be reinstalled on any clothing again.

For the mods, what about making it "OR" instead of getting 1 of each option? Or ditching the soak and defense mods.

I see two paths:

1) You treat "as is", that is your t-shirt and shorts provide the same bonuses as the armored clothing from the CRB after insertion, and you can mod it as per the mod options. Making it a a cheap path to awesome armour, that doesn't look like armour. Yay.

Or

2) After application, you have armoured clothing, but beyond the base Soak of 1 (or 0) of the original clothing, you gain no benefit (barring a hard point?), for that you need to start modding. The cost comes closer to buying actual armored clothing, and the superiority of the attachment isn't that great.

The ever-present third option is just to ignore its existence. Like the incomplete sentence under the cloaking device starship attachment ...

On 8/25/2018 at 9:51 AM, EliasWindrider said:

The text says it turns any appropriate article of clothing into armored clothing which too me says all the rules associated with armored clothing applies. The armor inserts also has extra rules (modification, different price, installation) and a limited set of clothing (e.g. banal apparel) has extra rules that would also apply. It's more l  ike a software repo merge commit.

Would the extra rules from base items apply though? I don't have the book to quote exactly, but if it says it turns it into armored clothing and armored clothing doesn't have the bonuses of the base item, would they still apply?

1 hour ago, Ahrimon said:

Would the extra rules from base items apply though? I don't have the book to quote exactly, but if it says it turns it into armored clothing and armored clothing doesn't have the bonuses of the base item, would they still apply?

A good question, and another reason that this one currently sits in my Not in My Games bin.

On 9/11/2018 at 10:28 PM, Ahrimon said:

Would the extra rules from base items apply though? I don't have the book to quote exactly, but if it says it turns it into armored clothing and armored clothing doesn't have the bonuses of the base item, would they still apply?

If you go strictly by rules as written, I'd say no, as it it's explicitly no longer banal apparel/cargo clothes/tracker vest etc. It's probably the sanest way to run it, and then the GM can allow base item bonuses on a case by case basis using cautious judgement, common sense and the innate goodness and generosity inherent to all GMs.

Has this question been sent to the developers yet as to how the item should work?

On 9/19/2018 at 7:35 AM, Lukey84 said:

Has this question been sent to the developers yet as to how the item should work?

I believe I did but it was a while ago.

I wonder whether this could be salvaged by reinterpreting it so that the attachment basically only adds the modification options and doesn't affect the base items soak, defense or other abilities in any other way.

For example, if you add it to adverse environmental gear, it would retain the ability to remove a setback die, Soak 1, defense 0 and it's hard point but get no bonuses from the attachment unless it's modded. Sure you could still turn your parka into the equivalent of a heavy battle armor with Soak 2, Defense 1, but at least now you cant surpass it, and low profile stuff like banal apparel can, with some effort, be turned into fully fledged banal armored clothing.

It would still be pretty cheap though.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:19 AM, Mark Caliber said:

Wookie

*Wookiee

On 9/21/2018 at 3:05 AM, EliasWindrider said:

I believe I did but it was a while ago.

As two months have passed, could you (or anyone else) get more insights into how this attachment is supposed to work?

16 hours ago, Rogues Rule said:

As two months have passed, could you (or anyone else) get more insights into how this attachment is supposed to work?

Didn't get a reply yet

3 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Didn't get a reply yet

Don't hold your breath, even if you're a droid.

We saw the 10 minute return response recently. I think it's highly unlikely we'll see that again...

After reading it again, I'm noticing there are no capital letters in Armored Clothing. So I would say it classifies as clothing which is armored, but gains no benefit outside of the modifications.

1 hour ago, Lukey84 said:

After reading it again, I'm noticing there are no capital letters in Armored Clothing. So I would say it classifies as clothing which is armored, but gains no benefit outside of the modifications.

That's not the way the FFG rules work. It's not Pathfinder or D&D with keywords that are capitalized except for skills and traits (e.g., Pierce, Stun, Cumbersome, etc.).

2 hours ago, Lukey84 said:

After reading it again, I'm noticing there are no capital letters in Armored Clothing. So I would say it classifies as clothing which is armored, but gains no benefit outside of the modifications.

I suppose it's as good an interpretation as any.

And seeing how cheap the attachment is (half the cost of actual Armored Clothing and not requiring any hard points), it certainly cuts down on how potent this attachment can be when adding it to certain types of "armor" such as the variety of "no soak bonus but here's a bonus to certain types of social checks" offered in Desperate Allies.

Granted my own read is that the attachment provides the armor with Soak 1, Defense 1, and the Perception check to notice that the garment is "armored," which may have been the authorial intent (though the wording of the effect certainly left something to be desired) does seem a bit on the potent side. Then again, considering the price tags on some of the new gear being offered, I'm convinced there was a whole lot of concern for 'balanced' on the author's part.