Concussion missiles use this wording and I believe that I saw it at least one other place too.

Pp. 5 & 13 of the 2e rules reference define what it means to “hit” with an attack by having uncancelled (BOOM) or (KABOOM) results at the end of Attack step 4. I assumed that “after this attack hits” means the effect triggers directly at the end of this step before damage from the uncancelled (BOOM) or (KABOOM) results is applied in Attack step 5: Deal Damage. Others disagree with my interpretation. Although several other wordings are called out triggering in a specific order in Attack step 8: Aftermath, this wording is not...which strengthens my belief in my conclusion

The timing of this trigger changes CM effectiveness in a big way.

My interpretation is that wording is shorthand for 'after this attack, if it hits...' (triggering in step 6), but thats just one possible interpretation and I see why RAW it could go your way (triggering at the end of step 4).

33 minutes ago, player2072913 said:

My interpretation is that wording is shorthand for 'after this attack, if it hits...' (triggering in step 6), but thats just one possible interpretation and I see why RAW it could go your way (triggering at the end of step 4).

Actually, I meant 6 when I typed 8. I was looking at the RR on my wee bitty phone screen - there is no step 8.

Step 6 references “after you perform an attack” triggers but does not call out actually hitting. I think this is intentional as it leaves the design space open to have effects trigger after you resolve an attack regardless of the result.

If FFG sought to have the CM flip effect trigger on its own damage to the target, they should have worded it as: “after you perform this attack, if it hit the defender...” or “after you perform this attack and hit...” But they did not; I think this was intentional, otherwise it would be a bit more expensive. It would essentially be a proton torp at -1 red die, +1 charge, +1 cool splash effect for 3 points cheaper.

If they intended that to be shorthand, then they could have spelled that out in the RR and used it all over the place

But, maybe it is supposed to work that way. Heck, I would like it to myself since I have not been super excited about the 2e missile options for my bombers right now. However, RAW, I am going with it triggering at the end of step 4. Hopefully FFG will let us know if my interpretation matches what they wanted these missiles to do.

Is the damage card now exposed after step 4 or step 6? Is there a reference meanwhile on how this was ruled in an official tournament?

2 hours ago, TheRealStarkiller said:

Is the damage card now exposed after step 4 or step 6? Is there a reference meanwhile on how this was ruled in an official tournament?

no clarification that i know of.

i assume the damage card(s) should be exposed after step 4, since that's when it's determined whether the attack hits or misses. at least, that's how it's written.

exposing a hull breach on the defender would be nice.

It triggers in step 4, before damage is dealt in step 5. it would have to have the words “after your perform an attack” to qualify for step 6. Compare to Rexler and Whispers text.

Also reference page 18 for what the word “after” means in X-wing. As in “after this attack hits...”.

Wouldnt step 5, and concussion missiles trigger at the same time thus you get to pick the order they are resolved?

both come after step 4

"Deal Damage: If the attack hits, the defender suffers damage for each
uncanceled ? and ? result in the following order:
a. The defender suffers 1 ? damage for each uncanceled ? result.
Then cancel all ? results.
b. The defender suffers 1 ? damage for each uncanceled ? result.
Then cancel all ? results." - page 5 of the rules reference

It's not worded "if the attack hit" its worded "if the attack hits" to me this they are both happening at the same time.

maybe I am way off.

Before/after Triggers follow this chart :

before step1 -> step 1 -> after step 1 -> before step 2 -> step 2 -> after step 2 -> ...

So no.

11 hours ago, Icelom said:

Wouldnt step 5, and concussion missiles trigger at the same time thus you get to pick the order they are resolved?

both come after step 4

"Deal Damage: If the attack hits, the defender suffers damage for each
uncanceled ? and ? result in the following order:
a. The defender suffers 1 ? damage for each uncanceled ? result.
Then cancel all ? results.
b. The defender suffers 1 ? damage for each uncanceled ? result.
Then cancel all ? results." - page 5 of the rules reference

It's not worded "if the attack hit" its worded "if the attack hits" to me this they are both happening at the same time.

maybe I am way off.

yes, i think you're way off.

page five:

4. Neutralize Results: During this step, pairs of attack and defense dice neutralize each other.
Dice are neutralized in the following order:
a. Pairs of (hit) and (evade) results are canceled.
b. Pairs of (crit) and (evade) results are canceled.
The attack hits if at least one (hit) or (crit) result remains uncanceled; otherwise, the attack misses.

and page 18:

• After: The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

this means it happens straight after step four (Neutralize Results) of the attack, before going on to step five (Deal Damage). whether the attack hits is determined during step four, so the effect of concussion missiles should trigger immediately - and that means before step five.

i also have a feeling this is the intention, as otherwise the concussion missiles simply wouldn't be very good for it's points cost. the possibility of exposing and triggering crits such as hull breach or fuel leak during the same attack is what makes them awesome. not that it's very probable to consistently do it, but still, they're an ordnance with truly wonderful potential.

36 minutes ago, meffo said:

yes, i think you're way off.

page five:

4. Neutralize Results: During this step, pairs of attack and defense dice neutralize each other.
Dice are neutralized in the following order:
a. Pairs of (hit) and (evade) results are canceled.
b. Pairs of (crit) and (evade) results are canceled.
The attack hits if at least one (hit) or (crit) result remains uncanceled; otherwise, the attack misses.

and page 18:

• After: The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

this means it happens straight after step four (Neutralize Results) of the attack, before going on to step five (Deal Damage). whether the attack hits is determined during step four, so the effect of concussion missiles should trigger immediately - and that means before step five.

i also have a feeling this is the intention, as otherwise the concussion missiles simply wouldn't be very good for it's points cost. the possibility of exposing and triggering crits such as hull breach or fuel leak during the same attack is what makes them awesome. not that it's very probable to consistently do it, but still, they're an ordnance with truly wonderful potential.

I think you are probably right. Thanks for helping me think it through.