70 points for VCX generic, 72 points for Defender generic.

I played triple defender generics before their title buff in 1.0, and theyre good. i get that in 2.0 they got a buff. I get defenders have sweet dials. But a 4/0/10/4 cheaper than a 3/3/3/4? Does the tax on big ship upgrades balance that out?

Anyone played both yet?

VCX is overpriced imo. I’ve played the named defenders and think they’re priced about right, but I haven’t played the generics.

Don t know anything about the numbers, but I saw an episode of Rebels where one Defender seemed to be more than a match for the Ghost and 2 Y wings. So much so that they were forced to flee into a sun type thing to have a chance.

Does that count?

1 minute ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

VCX is overpriced imo. I’ve played the named defenders and think they’re priced about right, but I haven’t played the generics.

Cool. Im mostly sad i cant play 3 defenders, but i think they were fairly priced in 1.0 and they have an extra shield now, so its probably still fair.

The VCX was a clown car full of hurt in 1.0 so the 2.0 pricing just looked bizarre.

And Vader looks so OP at 68 points compared to a ps1 defender at 72, but we'll see

Yea Vader is probably too cheap.

2 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Don t know anything about the numbers, but I saw an episode of Rebels where one Defender seemed to be more than a match for the Ghost and 2 Y wings. So much so that they were forced to flee into a sun type thing to have a chance.

Does that count?

Lol the pilot there was also an EU legend on par with Soontir fel, but yes.

If defenders flew in game like they fly in the Star Wars universe theyd be 4/4/4/4 with reinforce and an all green dial. Also Rexler barths ability would read"if you have target lock on the defender, the defending player must concede and go home"

A naked defender is already effective right out of the gate. A vcx needs some points pumped into it before it becomes worth fielding.

<GASP!> You're insane! The MSRP on a VCX will be $49.95, the defender will MSRP for $19.95! The VCX is way more expensive!

Who would win?

The most advanced space superiority fighter ever created produced by the most powerful and weathly force the galaxy has ever known, with multiple hard points to carry missiles, powerful cannons, advanced shielding, sub-light engines hundreds of KPH faster than fighters purposebuilt for speed, an upgraded hyperdrive, all to be piloted by only the best of the best and most loyal pilots, hand picked from the Imperial Navy.

or

One spooky boi

1 minute ago, ThinkingB said:

Who would win?

The most advanced space superiority fighter ever created produced by the most powerful and weathly force the galaxy has ever known, lead by an immortal wizard who can see the future, with multiple hard points to carry missiles, powerful cannons, advanced shielding, sub-light engines hundreds of KPH faster than fighters purposebuilt for speed, an upgraded hyperdrive, all to be piloted by only the best of the best and most loyal pilots, hand picked from the Imperial Navy.

or

One spooky boi

Lol. I get you, but the falcon would eat lasers and die in first combat if logic were applied here.

Im just talking stats, actions and dial in game here... to wit the points seem weird.

For what the empire spent on them, 1 defender should be 500 points with better stats, but it aint

10 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Who would win?

The most advanced space superiority fighter ever created produced by the most powerful and weathly force the galaxy has ever known, with multiple hard points to carry missiles, powerful cannons, advanced shielding, sub-light engines hundreds of KPH faster than fighters purposebuilt for speed, an upgraded hyperdrive, all to be piloted by only the best of the best and most loyal pilots, hand picked from the Imperial Navy.

or

One spooky boi

Someone who can figure out how to charge by the comma?

It was pretty close in price in 1.0. And that was before defenders got an extra shield and ghosts lost 2, the best turret in the game, boost, cheap crew, system slot and undercosted wingmen.

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

It was pretty close in price in 1.0. And that was before defenders got an extra shield and ghosts lost 2, the best turret in the game, boost, cheap crew, system slot and undercosted wingmen.

The Ghost was also on the top of the Meta, while the Defender wasn't. Not even close.

Defenders took 2nd at gencon, and won several regionals and store champs.

Also ghost fenn was a function of cards that made a monstrosity of an abusive and forgiving to fly combo. The chassis itself can be melted in a single round. Most of what made it the murder machine it was has been removed or priced out of the stratosphere.

1 minute ago, viedit said:

Also ghost fenn was a function of cards that made a monstrosity of an abusive and forgiving to fly combo. The chassis itself can be melted in a single round. Most of what made it the murder machine it was has been removed or priced out of the stratosphere.

Every ship could be melted in a single round, especially if we don't look at the upgrades.

Also, the ghost can fire multiple times (in multiple directions!). The Defender cannot.

My problem with the defender, is that you spend 100 points for a 3 dice attack with 1 mod. Which is not consistent with the lore of the setting or the purpose of the craft.

Well, 91 for Brath with Juke, and FCS. And a lot of turns you have two mods. Juke and FCS. Some times it's three - juke, fcs and focus.

You don't get the effortless mods on a ghost in 2.0 like you did in 1.0.

Biggest VCX loss is the system slot. That provided a lot of action economy in FCS, or a lot of defensive power when using Sensor Jammer. The loss of 2 HP isn't too big a deal if you're using Reinforce (A reinforced 2e Ghost takes about 10 attacks with 3 focused dice to kill, a 1e Ghost took about 8 over two turns, presuming an Evade each turn). Reinforce is a big enough improvement that it warranted a hit point reduction. However, the biggest strength of a cheap 1e Ghost was Fire Control System. Pull that 5k into a Target Locked attack. I flew a lot of them lately, and having that action economy was massive.

But this was the point of 2e. Token stacking and easy action economy was supposed to go away. With the VCX, <orc voice> work complete. The red dice have been heavily hit. It's still got a decent dial and is pretty cheap for having a 4-dice primary.

The TIE Defender, on the other hand, kept the economy, just got more expensive. Or rather, it pays for a Shield Upgrade and Engine Upgrade tax. A Delta TIE/x7 with Engine and Shield Upgrade would translate to 36 points, which when doubled is exactly the 72 points of a baseline TIE Defender in 2e. That seems like it happens in a lot of other games. Powerful units don't necessarily become weaker, they just pay a tax in having to take expensive upgrades which maybe folks would rather skip, but can still work out.

I dunno. Defender and VCX pricing makes sense to me.

//

The prices which don't make sense?

1. Non-force TIE Advanced, compared to X-Wings and Khiraxz fighters. Same cost as an X, 1 point more than a K. It'd be one thing if the Khiraxz was 41 points, too, so FFG just didn't want a mainline 3-red fighter being 5-per-squad unless it had defensive risks like with a Striker or Interceptor. However the Khiraxz is a 5-per-list fighter, and as a generic it's not really that far behind an X-Wing. Both have the same actions (except with S-Foils closed), both have the same statline, except one shield converted to hull. Dials are fairly comparable. Lack of a 1-straight kinda stinks, but gaining the 1-hard is also really nice. But the basic Storm Squadron Pilot is still a point more expensive than a Khiraxz. It needs a TL for it's 3-dice attack, but can convert to crit. It has a linked Focus/Barrel Roll, but without a TL that won't always be a great action. It just seems far behind the closest equivalents in the other factions, but at the same or higher price.
2. The relative pricing between the Scum YT-1300 and the Jumpmaster. Same two red dice, and I don't know whether I'd rather have two opposite arcs, or the front+single rotating system. That's about even. Nine HP on 2 greens isn't that different from 11 HP on 1 green. Both have a red movement action. Jumpmaster gets a linked rotate, but can't rotate without stress. Torpedo is probably a hair better than a missile slot on a ship like this, but the YT gains a second crew slot and a gunner slot. YT-1300 dial is a little bit better, and certainly easier to use. However, the YT is 6 points cheaper for a generic. Init 6 Han is 10 points cheaper than Dengar, 6 points cheaper than Tel, 2 points cheaper than Manaroo, and only 2 points more expensive than a generic Contracted Scout. When the Init 6 ace is only two points more than the generic in nearly the same ship, that feels like an issue to me. I know there's a lot of hard feelings w/r/t the Jumpmaster, but this pricing difference really feels excessive.

2 hours ago, viedit said:

It was pretty close in price in 1.0. And that was before defenders got an extra shield and ghosts lost 2, the best turret in the game, boost, cheap crew, system slot and undercosted wingmen.

Defenders were 28(30 without title), so 56 in 2.0 price(or 60). The vcx was 35, or 70 in 2.0 points.

So vcx remained the same but defenders increased in cost by 25% and gained 1 shield

Is 1 shield worth 14 points? Or 10?

I'm not convinced that this isnt fair pricing or that defenders are bad at 72 points, its simply surprising to me. when khiraxz fighters got a shield but stayed the same price it makes me wonder

VERY cursory "research" so I'm sure someone will correct me,

but the apparently cheap Boeing 737-700 is 85.8 million dollars

The F-35 apparently pushes around 100 million

so, the real world sorta checks out

15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

VERY cursory "research" so I'm sure someone will correct me,

but the apparently cheap Boeing 737-700 is 85.8 million dollars

The F-35 apparently pushes around 100 million

so, the real world sorta checks out

I don't recall the Boeing having heavier armament than an F-35. I could be wrong however.

1 minute ago, Commander Kaine said:

I don't recall the Boeing having heavier armament than an F-35. I could be wrong however.

it would if plot armored protagonist pilots existed in the real world

22 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

VERY cursory "research" so I'm sure someone will correct me,

but the apparently cheap Boeing 737-700 is 85.8 million dollars

The F-35 apparently pushes around 100 million

so, the real world sorta checks out

How dare you compare the Defender to the joke that is the F-35. Not only is the Defender cheaper, but it actually works!

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

it would if plot armored protagonist pilots existed in the real world

And it would still cost extra...

4 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

the ghost can fire multiple times (in multiple directions!). The Defender cannot. 

*looks at TIE/D title*...