Barrow Wyrm (1 huge unit on 2 trays)

On the one hand, the Undead seemed uninterested in attacking the town’s twin fortresses where most of the population was sheltered. On the other, an entire company of garish, inhuman creatures was butchering the Daqan legion, as a terrifying, screeching Undead dragon, whose very breath could sicken a seasoned fighter, circled above the fray. The worst part was that for some reason, whenever the Daqan approached the river, the Undead somehow became even more lethally vicious.

Really like your take on bone horrors and banshees. The yellow only charge is a really neat idea on the banshee, making it difficult to set up but potentially very deadly.

I would prefer seeing bone horrors as a more trashy unit that's cheaper.

Keep up the awesome work on theorycrafts, love viewing all the possible maybes.

Nice work.

I am in love with Draugr.

Dude, gorgeous work. You're making me all excited about what the next releases might be. Love the Banshees. Love their dial, rules. All of it.

I want to look again at your Dwarf list because I used to play Dwarves in WFB and for some reason your units in that one didn't do it for me (which is why I want to go back and see why), but these are fantastic.

I opened this thinking it would be another "ded gaem" thread... but this was a pleasant surprise.

20 hours ago, Maktorius said:

This is brilliant. I think it's thematic, does wonders to help out Ardus as a hero and gives the undead something that the other factions have that tends to be very powerful - surprise movement.

Firstly, thanks for all the kind words! Really appreciate it, and it makes the headache to go the extra mile with dials and upgrade slots really worth it

19 hours ago, Jukey said:

I would   prefer seeing bone horrors as a more trashy unit that's cheaper     .     

The reason for their meatiness is to give Ankaur cav champ some wounds to spend to make new infantry. Otherwise it would not be different from putting him in Death Knights now. You have a point that they could be "smaller" and therefore somewhat economically viable to exchange for infantry. Then they would need the Regenerate keyword and Lingering dead to combo with it, which would actually be really cool. BUT, as is they combo with Ardus, who is in dire need for friends to piggy back on, especially when it comes to survivability. So therefor I believe the current design with it's added synergy is mechanically "better" for the faction.

1 hour ago, Wraithist said:

want to look again at your Dwarf list because I used to play Dwarves in WFB and for some reason your units in that one didn't do it for me (which is why I want to go back and see why), but these are fantastic 

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Can't you access the thread (Homebrewn Dunwarr Dwarves), or were the design just not in the direction you would have liked? I fully understand that "shot and pike" is not for everyone, but it is a style I personally enjoy

I'm all ears though, and that goes for this thread and the balancing thread as well.

1 hour ago, Willange said:

I opened    this thinking it would be another "ded gaem" thread... but this was a  pleasant surprise  . 

My attempt at a word-play. I'm not a native english speaker so it might not work as intended

1 hour ago, Wraithist said:

This   is brilliant. I think it's thematic, does wonders to help out Ardus as a hero and gives the undead something that the other factions have that tends to be very powerful - surprise  movement  . 

HORN OF THE LEGION

Thanks again I hope FFG will run a design competition (arrogant to think it might have a chance, I know) so that it actually might get some legs.

Yeah, Ardus needs a job on the battlefield and Waiqar is falling behind results-wise partly due to their predictability. It also indirectly fixes the Wraiths. Now they potentially can do some clawing BEFORE getting stomped.

24 minutes ago, Maktorius said:

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Can't you access the thread (Homebrewn Dunwarr Dwarves), or were the design just not in the direction you would have liked? I fully understand that "shot and pike" is not for everyone, but it is a style I personally enjoy

I'm all ears though, and that goes for this thread and the balancing thread as well.

I think I need a second look at it because I want to see if my first impression was wrong. Or I want to find specifically what it was about the Dunwarr that made me not quite sold on them so I can give some input on them!

27 minutes ago, Maktorius said:

My attempt at a word-play. I'm not a native english speaker so it might not work as intended

I laughed. If you can find clever puns you're close enough to a native speaker.

28 minutes ago, Maktorius said:

HORN OF THE LEGION

Thanks again I hope FFG will run a design competition (arrogant to think it might have a chance, I know) so that it actually might get some legs.

Dope card man. Super cool.

28 minutes ago, Maktorius said:

The  r  eason for their meatiness is to give Ankaur cav champ         some wounds to spend to make new infantry. Otherwise it would not be different from putting him in Death Knights now. You have a point that they could be "smaller" and therefore somewhat economically viable to exchange for infantry. Then they would need the Regenerate keyword and Lingerin  g dead to combo with it, which would actually be really cool. BUT, as is they combo with Ardus, who is in dire need for friends to piggy back on, especially  when it comes to survivability. So therefor I b    elieve the current design with it's added synergy is mechanically      "better" for the faction. 

Sounds like you really need Barghests. From the health to the double morale modifier, a lot of your ideas for this unit could work well if reskinned as Barghests. I would change the abilities on the front of the card, but command tool looks very much like a Barghest to me. Bone Horrors are slow.

Added Barrow Wyrm

On 8/16/2018 at 3:12 PM, Maktorius said:

First I put the init 9 move as speed-7. But then remembered that you actually are limited by the tools. So instead it got a speed-2 modifier, and thematically I guess that could be explained as the initail liftoff is straight up and then away, and the the decreasing altitude when landing is the modifier.

But you still have a speed 5 march and I don't believe a speed 5 template exists in this game - 4 is the highest. But what if Flying became a new keyword and part of its rules were that you may choose to ignore any obstacle while performing a march or shift during your activation (or something like that) so that you didn't have to fit where the 4 put you, but could do a 4 and a 3 as one movement. Just a thought.

On 8/16/2018 at 3:12 PM, Maktorius said:



Excellent! The visuals really bring these to life my friend.

I think you should keep Brutal 2, but make it 1 (6) so it has a full six trays to show it's magnificence. I think 2 trays wont be enough to make the model the right size. What do you think?

Also then it would need to be more like 75 pts right?

If we're already off the rails on base size. It would be cool to see some single formation support units like a bone cart that's 3x1 that has ability to add trays to reanimate units (or like a Yeron chariot)

Updated the Barrow Wyrm. In addition to what is described below, I put a limit on the blighting ability so that it would not get totally out of hand when running more than 1. Also fixed some small graphic stuff on the other units.

22 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

But you still have a speed 5 march and I don't believe a speed 5 template exists in this game - 4 is the highest. But what if Flying became a new keyword and part of its rules were that you may choose to ignore any obstacle while performing a march or shift during your activation (or something like that) so that you didn't have to fit where the 4 put you, but could do a 4 and a 3 as one movement. Just a thought. 

Doh! That is what you get for fooling around with this stuff late at night instead of going to bed.

Excellent point regarding Flying, added it as a keyword (with the rules text on the "flip side"). Re-did the dial and rewrote the Terror from above upgrade to make it work as intended.

17 hours ago, Wraithist said:

Excellent! The visuals really bring these to life my friend.

I think you should keep Brutal 2, but make it 1 (6) so it has a full six trays to show it's magnificence. I think 2 trays wont be enough to make the model the right size. What do you think?

Also then it would need to be more like 75 pts right?

Yeah, nice to have all the art ready from battle lore at hand

Regarding the 6 trays: I agree it would be AWSOME But i feel quite confident that FFG will stick with the 2-tray expansion boxes, like they have done for all unit expansions. So I'm trying to keeping it as plausible as possible. If you imagine just how big the Rune golem figure actually is, if you double that you should still get a rather impressing (and storable!) piece.

Regarding the points you are probably right that it was too cheap. BUT, note that it fights lika a 6 tray of siege units (admittedly with stronger abilities), it's much softer. A 6 tray of Carrion Lancers has 54 "life" (armour x wounds), the Barrow Wyrm only has 24. So i bumped the naked one up to 55, so that you at least can't run 4 in a list, and increased the cost of the upgrades. So if you want to run a fully equipped unit, it will cost you 70p, but you can't run 3 fully equipped in 1 list.

On 8/17/2018 at 8:57 PM, Budgernaut said:

Sounds like you really need Barghests. From the health to the double morale modifier, a lot of your ideas for this unit could work well if reskinned as Barghests. I would change the abilities on the front of the card, but command tool looks very much like a Barghest to me. Bone Horrors are slow. 

I have now updated the Bone Horrors' dial to slow them down. I believe they are the slowest cavalry now with their high initiatives and lack of move action on the modifier.

I've been thinking about your suggestion to make them more brittle, but I can't fit the mechanics for still being a viable Ankaur cav champ mount (Bone Horrors should be released before Barghests due to Ankaur's figure) and getting an interesting surge effekt that really fits together and is not too convoluted. If Ardus gets hosed AGAIN (i.e. no surge effects) he really is in bad shape.

I'll look into it in a couple of days. I guess it's likely they will (the actual release) have Regenerate as it is only 1 unit having that today.

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 5:05 PM, Maktorius said:

Edited yesterday at 02:00 AM by Maktorius
I'm an idiot just realized that the Bone Horrors' movement will/should match Ankaur Maro's (since his figure actually rides one)! I'll get on it when I have time.

Aliana rides a Leonx, but has a different dial than Leonx. Kethra rides a Flesh ripper and doesn't have the same there either. So I wouldn't worry about that much.

Just a little terminology: Your Bone Horrors' melee ability reads "in front of your firing arc". Shouldn't this be "in your firing arc" or even "in line of sight"?

1 minute ago, Uthoroc said:

Just a little terminology: Your Bone Horrors' melee ability reads "in front of your firing arc". Shouldn't this be "in your firing arc" or even "in line of sight"?

I just copied the text on Gorgemaw:

http://runewars.wikia.com/wiki/Th’Uk_Tar_and_Gorgemaw

Right or wrong, it is FFG language I guess

Ah, but there it says "and in your front firing arc", not "in front of your firing arc". You can't be in front of an firing arc, as it extends across the whole table. Just nitpicking I know, sorry.

Reworked the Bone Horrors. Thank you @Zaaik for the "ability translation" from Descent 2.0 (in the Waiqar siege unit thread) and @Jukey and @Budgernaut for the input on "the feel" of the unit.

-Lowered the health from 3 to 2.

-Gave it Regenerate 1 instead of ZZ: Remove 1 wound.

-Removed the Shield on the modifier dial. Gave it the Cover keyword instead to simulate that arrows and bolts are less effective against heaps of bones, but heavy melee weapons are still effective.

-Gave it the surge ability to reduce the defence, just like the Duskblade. In Descent, the Bone Horrors has the keyword Pierce (ignore defence), so it works. And as is discussed in another thread, the Duskblade is cool but to unweildy to put in a competetive list. Having the ability on a unit with 2 blue dice is a whole different story, especially when paired with Ardus. It would not be easy to choose between Combat Ingenuity and Lingering Dead

-Already slowed them down in the last iteration.

Does it seem to fit better now?

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:39 PM, Maktorius said:

Updated the Barrow Wyrm. In addition to what is described below, I put a limit on the blighting ability so that it would not get totally out of hand when running more than 1. Also fixed some small graphic stuff on the other units.

Doh! That is what you get for fooling around with this stuff late at night instead of going to bed.

Excellent point regarding Flying, added it as a keyword (with the rules text on the "flip side"). Re-did the dial and rewrote the Terror from above upgrade to make it work as intended.

Yeah, nice to have all the art ready from battle lore at hand

Regarding the 6 trays: I agree it would be AWSOME But i feel quite confident that FFG will stick with the 2-tray expansion boxes, like they have done for all unit expansions. So I'm trying to keeping it as plausible as possible. If you imagine just how big the Rune golem figure actually is, if you double that you should still get a rather impressing (and storable!) piece.

Regarding the points you are probably right that it was too cheap. BUT, note that it fights lika a 6 tray of siege units (admittedly with stronger abilities), it's much softer. A 6 tray of Carrion Lancers has 54 "life" (armour x wounds), the Barrow Wyrm only has 24. So i bumped the naked one up to 55, so that you at least can't run 4 in a list, and increased the cost of the upgrades. So if you want to run a fully equipped unit, it will cost you 70p, but you can't run 3 fully equipped in 1 list.

People complain about Ravos, this is essentially a further reaching ravos with 4 armor instead of 2 and one more brutal. On top of being steadfast in everything instead of fear 2 and immune to blight so can never get rid of a die. All for only 15 more points. On top of better movement options. Even before considering the upgrades. I feel like while it's a cool idea, this is a beefed up guy that could be unkillable in 8 rounds w/ a pretty small footprint (2 trays). You'd have to focus your whole army on him to kill it. This would be in EVERY Waiqar list. Which would obviously consist of 2 of these fully upgraded and 40 points to go to anything else. I say if you're going to make this unit. Give it the upgrades innately and just make it 70 points. Force the person to commit 70 points to this one unit, don't give them the option at 55.

On 8/16/2018 at 10:12 PM, Maktorius said:

Barrow Wyrm (1 huge unit on 2 trays)

On the one hand, the Undead seemed uninterested in attacking the town’s twin fortresses where most of the population was sheltered. On the other, an entire company of garish, inhuman creatures was butchering the Daqan legion, as a terrifying, screeching Undead dragon, whose very breath could sicken a seasoned fighter, circled above the fray. The worst part was that for some reason, whenever the Daqan approached the river, the Undead somehow became even more lethally vicious.

Yes.