3 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Did JRRR Tolkien write that movie? No, as that is included in the mixed bags of "fan films" that I earlier discussed. It is not tolkien. I am talking about tolkien communities focused solely on the writings, sometimes perhaps focused with very loyal depictions of those writings, such as War of the Ring.

The problem is you are comparing a sub-section of Tolkien fans with the entire Star Wars fan base. A more accurate comparison would be to look at those who are just fans of the Original Trilogy. And while you might find less discord inside these sub-sections, your own words in the post below the one I quoted paint a very different picture with how those sub-sections interact with others.

9 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

The problem is you are comparing a sub-section of Tolkien fans with the entire Star Wars fan base. A more accurate comparison would be to look at those who are just fans of the Original Trilogy. And while you might find less discord inside these sub-sections, your own words in the post below the one I quoted paint a very different picture with how those sub-sections interact with others.

A sub-section of Middle Earth fans to be exact. Many of the genus of Middle Earth fans have read little, if any, Tolkien. The specific circles I am talking about are concerned only solely with the writings, and thus the species of Tolkien as in J. R. R. monday-to-friday Tolkien and the writings he produced with his very typewriters/pens and papers within the context of his very life. They sound bizzare, but they are more plentiful than you think (but that should not be too surprising as the Lord of the Rings, Simillarion, etc. are seen as the Sacred Text of the fanbase). For an example of something a little mainstream and along these lines, check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/ . The culture is that almost exclusively of book (despite the professed love of all the films by the moderators and users). It is a delight, although I share Viggo Mortensen's (ironic, heheh) views on the films. The primary definer of the fandom is the Sacred Text, not about the Intellectual Property/Trademarks said text has produced. In a sense, it could be likened to a religion.

5 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Dude, you're kinda being a jerk. It's OK for people to disagree with you and have their own opinions about a movie. Cool your internet jets. I've stated my displeasure with TLJ but never my displeasure with a person or the people who are fans of the film. You're doing exactly that, labeling people that don't agree with you. I don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me, but we all have to be civil. Don't be a jerk.

Alright. Now tell the entire anti-TLJ posse that. Because for a year I've been even handed, but those guys get away with saying all sorts of mean s**t. Not the two I quoted, but in general.

1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Alright. Now tell the entire anti-TLJ posse that. Because for a year I've been even handed, but those guys get away with saying all sorts of mean s**t. Not the two I quoted, but in general.

I mean, as childish as Disney was in its reaction, you have a fair point. The anti-TLJ posse was even moreso than they were.

7 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Alright. Now tell the entire anti-TLJ posse that. Because for a year I've been even handed, but those guys get away with saying all sorts of mean s**t. Not the two I quoted, but in general.

I don't appreciate anyone being rude to anyone. I've caught myself being negative at times as well, so it happens to all of us, but there's no excuse for it. I'm OK with dumping on a movie or stating why you like it, just don't dump on PEOPLE. You're a fan of TLJ, I am not. We're still perfectly capable of being civil to each other. Let me apologize on the behalf of those that have been less than civil to you in the past - it's just as unacceptable when they're being jerks. This is a community , not a battlefield.

2 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I don't appreciate anyone being rude to anyone. I've caught myself being negative at times as well, so it happens to all of us, but there's no excuse for it. I'm OK with dumping on a movie or stating why you like it, just don't dump on PEOPLE. You're a fan of TLJ, I am not. We're still perfectly capable of being civil to each other. Let me apologize on the behalf of those that have been less than civil to you in the past - it's just as unacceptable when they're being jerks. This is a community , not a battlefield.

No u.

15 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

I mean, as childish as Disney was in its reaction, you have a fair point. The anti-TLJ posse was even moreso than they were.

(Thank you) and what's worse, they've continued this activity for almost an entire year now. I mean, one side's bullied people off of the internet (albeit temporarily). Good people that didn't hurt anybody, just because their character in a movie was "Bad".

7 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I don't appreciate anyone being rude to anyone. I've caught myself being negative at times as well, so it happens to all of us, but there's no excuse for it. I'm OK with dumping on a movie or stating why you like it, just don't dump on PEOPLE. You're a fan of TLJ, I am not. We're still perfectly capable of being civil to each other. Let me apologize on the behalf of those that have been less than civil to you in the past - it's just as unacceptable when they're being jerks. This is a community , not a battlefield.

Perfectly fair response. I don't hate anybody for disliking TLJ, no I've simply become to expect it, however baffling it is to me. But I am also always prepared to see vitriol, and fight fire with fire.

6 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

A sub-section of Middle Earth fans to be exact. Many of the genus of Middle Earth fans have read little, if any, Tolkien. The specific circles I am talking about are concerned only solely with the writings, and thus the species of Tolkien as in J. R. R. monday-to-friday Tolkien and the writings he produced with his very typewriters/pens and papers within the context of his very life. They sound bizzare, but they are more plentiful than you think (but that should not be too surprising as the Lord of the Rings, Simillarion, etc. are seen as the Sacred Text of the fanbase). For an example of something a little mainstream and along these lines, check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/ . The culture is that almost exclusively of book (despite the professed love of all the films by the moderators and users). It is a delight, although I share Viggo Mortensen's (ironic, heheh) views on the films. The primary definer of the fandom is the Sacred Text, not about the Intellectual Property/Trademarks said text has produced. In a sense, it could be likened to a religion.

That is a fair clarification. There can be a big difference between Middle Earth fans and Tolkien fans.

I still, however, think that even among the defined Tolkien fans, what you are describing a part of it rather than the whole. I know several people who I believe definitely fit the Tolkien fan definition, but hold the movies (at least the LoTR trilogy) in higher regard than what you described. I don’t mean to imply any sort of majority or illegitimacy, just that it still feels to me like comparing part of one thing to the entirety of another.

10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That is a fair clarification. There can be a big difference between Middle Earth fans and Tolkien fans.

I still, however, think that even among the defined Tolkien fans, what you are describing a part of it rather than the whole. I know several people who I believe definitely fit the Tolkien fan definition, but hold the movies (at least the LoTR trilogy) in higher regard than what you described. I don’t mean to imply any sort of majority or illegitimacy, just that it still feels to me like comparing part of one thing to the entirety of another.

I can respect that. I know that I am waaaayy overzealous in my gatekeeping to a degree that would embarrass Christopher Tolkien (that being said, I respect the 2001-3 films immensely; it's just that I improperly do so as "wow, what a beautiful fanfiction!" when I should respect them as efficient films in their own right and thus a different medium than written text that takes as long to read as to play some videogames). I also know that my analogy sucks, especially in regard to differentiating what is a different fandom and what is a different subclass of fandom.

So... how does any of this affect 2.0 feeling de-powered?

2 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

So... how does any of this affect 2.0 feeling de-powered?

Yes, the whole thread is de-powered.

1 hour ago, player3010587 said:

A sub-section of Middle Earth fans to be exact. Many of the genus of Middle Earth fans have read little, if any, Tolkien. The specific circles I am talking about are concerned only solely with the writings, and thus the species of Tolkien as in J. R. R. monday-to-friday Tolkien and the writings he produced with his very typewriters/pens and papers within the context of his very life. They sound bizzare, but they are more plentiful than you think (but that should not be too surprising as the Lord of the Rings, Simillarion, etc. are seen as the Sacred Text of the fanbase). For an example of something a little mainstream and along these lines, check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/ . The culture is that almost exclusively of book (despite the professed love of all the films by the moderators and users). It is a delight, although I share Viggo Mortensen's (ironic, heheh) views on the films. The primary definer of the fandom is the Sacred Text, not about the Intellectual Property/Trademarks said text has produced. In a sense, it could be likened to a religion.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant

The more you narrow the scope of a fandom, the less people will disagree though, as people's interests coincide more.

39 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

I can respect that. I know that I am waaaayy overzealous in my gatekeeping to a degree that would embarrass Christopher Tolkien (that being said, I respect the 2001-3 films immensely; it's just that I improperly do so as "wow, what a beautiful fanfiction!" when I should respect them as efficient films in their own right and thus a different medium than written text that takes as long to read as to play some videogames). I also know that my analogy sucks, especially in regard to differentiating what is a different fandom and what is a different subclass of fandom.

The LotR movies caused a paradigm shift in cinema culture towards multipart franchises, they shaped the medium in no small part and therefor have a place in film history. Truly worthy adaptations.

By the way, do you sometimes laugh about the ridiculous focus some star wars fans have about canonicity? I know that's what getting deeper into Tolkiens texts taught me, wether a story fits into a canon or that canon makes perfect sense is ultimately of little consequence when the story is good. The unfinished/later overhauled stuff is some of my favourite Tolkien reading, despite not having a direct impact on the canonical story. That experience always makes me raise an eyebrow when someone throws a fit over the decanonization of the EU or how TLJ ruined their childhood.