On 8/24/2018 at 12:16 AM, Freeptop said:

Let me check something real quick ...

Yep, on the packaging, it clearly says "Star Wars". Let's see, can anyone think of any cases in Star Wars where a freighter faced off against multiple dogfighters and won? ?

The Ghost in Rebels seems to blow up TIE Fighters with ease and survive scraps with multiple fighters on a semi-regular basis.

Also, while technically Legends now but it was Canon when X-wing was first designed so it's relevant to the discussion, in the Kotor games the Ebon Hawk takes on as many as 6 fighters at once (and destroys them all) at several points in the story.

To gripe a bit about tlj (not an easy target at all...), ****** that made the FO out to be complete chumps

Let's just look at falcon v ties across the ages

1.) Ep 4: rough fight against four sent only as a false sense of security

Later blindsides and shoots (but somehow didn't destroy) an x1

2.) Ep 5: runs away from a gaggle of TIEs. Cannot afford to fight them directly, relies entirely on asteroid cover

Tense situation

3.) Ep 6: falcon assists as part of a larger fleet

4.) Ep 7: Finn and Rose have an epic battle with only TWO FO fighters!!!

Sure Rey never flew the falcon before, but same thing with the force and that came to her far more easily

5.) Ep 8:

Literally announces arrival on Crait with a ONE SHOT triple kill

Faffs about completely unsupported in the face of a large FO squad. No issue at all

Chewie's piloting is so slick that the only character in danger is the flipping porg

"Comedic" porg splat on cockpit window highlights how much danger the characters are in (somewhere between Jack and ****)

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

C  hewie's  piloting is s  o slick 

I think that part is pretty cool! And Rey is a great gunner for the same reason Luke impressed Han when escaping the death star: this stuff is much easier with a little help from the force. Little Anakin can race podracers at horrendous speeds because he sees the next few moments. That ability certainly helps for lining up shots! And unlike Luke at his time as gunner, Rey had already made her first steps. Imagine Luke after Dagobah, he would have turned that encounter of running away into easy mode.

On 8/27/2018 at 1:28 AM, ficklegreendice said:

Later blindsides and shoots (but somehow didn't destroy) an x1

The Falcon didn't hit the x1 there. It hit one of the wingmen (blowing it up). The other wingman panics and clips Vader's panel. It's that clipping of the panel that makes Vader's x1 go spinning off.

You can see this here:

On 8/16/2018 at 1:37 AM, SabineKey said:

2) Brand new releases (like Lando's Falcon and the upcoming RZ-2 A-Wing for the Resistance) will require purchase if you want what's in them. Converted ships (like the TIE Defender and E-Wing) will have some new stuff in them outside of what comes in the conversion packs, but FFG has said there will be a way to get that stuff without buying the models over again. You shouldn't have to go into a faction you don't want for upgrades, though there is no guarantee how fast an upgrade that debuted in say a Rebel expansion will appear in an Imperial one, for example.

Will all of the items (including pilot cards) be available outside of buying the model? I'm betting not. Pushing duplicate models across each of the factions will get expensive fast if you want to get all the cards it sounds.

On 8/27/2018 at 1:28 AM, ficklegreendice said:

3.) Ep 6: falcon assists as part of a larger fleet

You're spot on about the absurd power-creep of TLJ, of course, but there's one interesting feature of this list:

Endor is the only time in the films we see the Falcon fully crewed for combat. In all of its other appearances, it has a small rag-tag team of people aboard, many of whom have had little to no previous experience flying or gunning the ship. But at Endor, we have General Calrissian as the pilot, Nien Nunb as the Co-Pilot and Navigator, with Lt Blount and Airen Cracken aboard as crackshot gunners and at least a few other support crew (we see in the same deleted scenes that feature Blount and Cracken in the gunner chairs a few other support crew, including a Sullustan Technician who goes about the ship making repairs during the battle.)

And, it's perhaps not surprising then, that during the scenes from RotJ we see the Falcon posing quite the offensive threat* as it runs and guns down TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors.


*Of course, as you note FGD, this all pales to Rey's "TRIPLE KILL!!!!!" single shot in TLJ, but everything in the new trilogies is so absurdly over-powered as a cheap way to have "WOW!" moment action and to get auidences to buy into the new characters as epic bad***es (Poe kills 10 TIEs and some stormtroopers in 12 on-screen seconds, Poe destroys every gun on a dreadnaught in about 15 seconds, Rey pilots the Falcon through superstructures despite never having flown it before (and it not having flown in years ... wait, I thought fuel was suddenly this big thing in Disney Star Wars?), Rey triple-kills TIEs despite never having gunned before, Luke describes Kylo and Rey as the "most powerful" beings he's ever felt (Yoda, Vader, Palpatine... a bunch of nobodies, apparently), Rey can force-grab sabers and lift dozens of boulders at once despite only having about three hours of training in the Force, etc. etc. etc. .... it's keeping right in line with Disney just making all the ships and walkers bigger and more massive with huger cannons, because "BIGGER = MORE POWER = COOLER" in Disney's vision.

45 minutes ago, urloony said:

Will all of the items (including pilot cards) be available outside of buying the model? I'm betting not. Pushing duplicate models across each of the factions will get expensive fast if you want to get all the cards it sounds.

We don’t know for sure yet. I am expecting only the new cards will be in the re-release packs will be available without the model. So, for the re-release of the RZ-1 A-Wing might have the likes of Tycho and a new missile, thus we can get those without the model, but not another copy of Jake or Prockets.

If this is right, I do hope FFG puts in generic pilot(s) to go along with the new pilot(s). It will help out players who have more of a ship than the converters were stocked with, but doesn’t have quite enough to justify getting a second converter.

16 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

and it not having flown in years ... wait, I thought fuel was suddenly this big thing in Disney Star Wars?

You obviously have to keep it fueled so the tank doesn't start to corrode, duuh!

8 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

You're spot on about the absurd power-creep of TLJ, of course, but there's one interesting feature of this list:

Endor is the only time in the films we see the Falcon fully crewed for combat. In all of its other appearances, it has a small rag-tag team of people aboard, many of whom have had little to no previous experience flying or gunning the ship. But at Endor, we have General Calrissian as the pilot, Nien Nunb as the Co-Pilot and Navigator, with Lt Blount and Airen Cracken aboard as crackshot gunners and at least a few other support crew (we see in the same deleted scenes that feature Blount and Cracken in the gunner chairs a few other support crew, including a Sullustan Technician who goes about the ship making repairs during the battle.)

And, it's perhaps not surprising then, that during the scenes from RotJ we see the Falcon posing quite the offensive threat* as it runs and guns down TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors.


*Of course, as you note FGD, this all pales to Rey's "TRIPLE KILL!!!!!" single shot in TLJ, but everything in the new trilogies is so absurdly over-powered as a cheap way to have "WOW!" moment action and to get auidences to buy into the new characters as epic bad***es (Poe kills 10 TIEs and some stormtroopers in 12 on-screen seconds, Poe destroys every gun on a dreadnaught in about 15 seconds, Rey pilots the Falcon through superstructures despite never having flown it before (and it not having flown in years ... wait, I thought fuel was suddenly this big thing in Disney Star Wars?), Rey triple-kills TIEs despite never having gunned before, Luke describes Kylo and Rey as the "most powerful" beings he's ever felt (Yoda, Vader, Palpatine... a bunch of nobodies, apparently), Rey can force-grab sabers and lift dozens of boulders at once despite only having about three hours of training in the Force, etc. etc. etc. .... it's keeping right in line with Disney just making all the ships and walkers bigger and more massive with huger cannons, because "BIGGER = MORE POWER = COOLER" in Disney's vision.

I would like this post more if the site would let me.

9 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

You're spot on about the absurd power-creep of TLJ, of course, but there's one interesting feature of this list:

Endor is the only time in the films we see the Falcon fully crewed for combat. In all of its other appearances, it has a small rag-tag team of people aboard, many of whom have had little to no previous experience flying or gunning the ship. But at Endor, we have General Calrissian as the pilot, Nien Nunb as the Co-Pilot and Navigator, with Lt Blount and Airen Cracken aboard as crackshot gunners and at least a few other support crew (we see in the same deleted scenes that feature Blount and Cracken in the gunner chairs a few other support crew, including a Sullustan Technician who goes about the ship making repairs during the battle.)

And, it's perhaps not surprising then, that during the scenes from RotJ we see the Falcon posing quite the offensive threat* as it runs and guns down TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors.


*Of course, as you note FGD, this all pales to Rey's "TRIPLE KILL!!!!!" single shot in TLJ, but everything in the new trilogies is so absurdly over-powered as a cheap way to have "WOW!" moment action and to get auidences to buy into the new characters as epic bad***es (Poe kills 10 TIEs and some stormtroopers in 12 on-screen seconds, Poe destroys every gun on a dreadnaught in about 15 seconds, Rey pilots the Falcon through superstructures despite never having flown it before (and it not having flown in years ... wait, I thought fuel was suddenly this big thing in Disney Star Wars?), Rey triple-kills TIEs despite never having gunned before, Luke describes Kylo and Rey as the "most powerful" beings he's ever felt (Yoda, Vader, Palpatine... a bunch of nobodies, apparently), Rey can force-grab sabers and lift dozens of boulders at once despite only having about three hours of training in the Force, etc. etc. etc. .... it's keeping right in line with Disney just making all the ships and walkers bigger and more massive with huger cannons, because "BIGGER = MORE POWER = COOLER" in Disney's vision.

But you guys were happy to eat the crap fed to you by comics and novels and such.

Ya'll confuse me.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

But you guys were happy to eat the crap fed to you by comics and novels and such.

Ya'll confuse me.

Uh, I've never read a Star Wars comic in my life. I read a few of the X-Wing novels as a child, and they were pretty good for someone like me who really wanted to be an X-Wing pilot and was eager to have more stories about dogfighting in Star Wars. That said, I also thought Goosebump books were awesome. So, you know, the lens of childhood.

Not that knowledge or ignorance of the bloated EU are in any way connected to one's ability to see the absurdly powercrept and incongruous nature of TLJ... so I guess I don't see the root of your confusion?


What I find tiresome of TLJ defenders is that they always want to paint critics into either the corner of "alt-right troll" or " bitter loyalist of the awful EU which was stupider than TLJ." I can assure you that I am nowhere near either of those things, yet TLJ has soured my lifelong enthusiasm for Star Wars that I've had since childhood. Most of my geek-friends share this sentiment, though in fairness I do know three folks who did like TLJ. But they are certainly the minority of my social circle, anyways. C'est le vie. Tastes are subjective, so let it ride. I don't begrudge folks who liked TLJ, and I hope they enjoy Episode 9 and RJ's trilogy. Personally, I'll save my money.

56 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Uh, I've never read a Star Wars comic in my life. I read a few of the X-Wing novels as a child, and they were pretty good for someone like me who really wanted to be an X-Wing pilot and was eager to have more stories about dogfighting in Star Wars. That said, I also thought Goosebump books were awesome. So, you know, the lens of childhood.

Not that knowledge or ignorance of the bloated EU are in any way connected to one's ability to see the absurdly powercrept and incongruous nature of TLJ... so I guess I don't see the root of your confusion?


What I find tiresome of TLJ defenders is that they always want to paint critics into either the corner of "alt-right troll" or " bitter loyalist of the awful EU which was stupider than TLJ." I can assure you that I am nowhere near either of those things, yet TLJ has soured my lifelong enthusiasm for Star Wars that I've had since childhood. Most of my geek-friends share this sentiment, though in fairness I do know three folks who did like TLJ. But they are certainly the minority of my social circle, anyways. C'est le vie. Tastes are subjective, so let it ride. I don't begrudge folks who liked TLJ, and I hope they enjoy Episode 9 and RJ's trilogy. Personally, I'll save my money.

I've never heard anybody say that.

I also don't really get how TLJ can actually effect anybody's love for star wars. It's really just like any of the other films. People just built up expectations that had literally no grounding in... Anything, and then were mad that stuff they wanted to have happen didn't happen. No characters were ruined if one tries to read between the lines a little.

But I digress I guess. It's been a year and people just cannot let it go. It's ridiculous as ****.

19 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

But I digress I guess. It's been a year and people just cannot let it go. It's ridiculous as ****.

I mean, the topic was "in the lore of Star Wars, just how powerful is a freighter like the Falcon versus fighters?" And FGD offered an answer to that question and noted that it was pretty consistently the case that about four fighters was a serious threat to the ship when it was moderately crewed. But then he noted that in TLJ we see a radically different take where the Falcon , despite not having flown in years (per TFA, which takes place hours before TLJ) and only being crewed by its co-pilot and Rey, who's never been in a gunner's turret before, is able to take on an entire contingent of First Order fighters alone, even killing three TIEs with a single shot. This is starkly incongrous with the past seven films' portrayal of freighter vs fighters.

I then added that this is an extension of the across-the-board powercreep that has happened in the ST.


How is this not relevant?


PS: you're 'yet another corner' to paint a critic in attempt is, just for the record, inaccurate. I did not dislike TLJ because it didn't play out as I had imagined it would. I disliked it for the blatant powercreep, the disregard for established physical rules of the built Star Wars world, the lazy storyline riddled with plotholes (straight line chase), the ineffective and non-stop humor, the embarrassing incompetence of the First Order, force ghosts slinging lightning bolts, the revealation that the Force tips the scales of the Galaxy so that Light can balance Dark or vice versa, rendering any struggle between Good and Evil moot, the implausible character decisions, etc. etc. etc. ... Even if the plot would have been something entirely different (even aligning with my own expectations, to the extend that I had any) I would have still hated TLJ had it still had all of these flaws and wanton disregard for the rules of the built universe. To subvert expectations is one thing (and films that try to surprise audiences or reign in plot armor are admirable, in my opinion), but to subvert all of the rules of the built-world you're telling a story in... well that's just bad story telling.

45 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I also don't really get how TLJ can actually effect anybody's love for star wars.

For me, the main issue has been the way it breaks established lore on multiple aspects, invalidating several cool moments from the OT and prequels in the process.

For example, the battle of Yavin and Luke's Force-aided shot look a lot less dramatic when you consider the Rebels could have just Holdo-ed a bunch of transports through the Death Star for the same result.

Similarly, Rey's ability with the Force and lightsabers makes most other Force users, including Anakin 'the Chosen One' Skywalker, look like a bunch of chumps.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I mean, the topic was "in the lore of Star Wars, just how powerful is a freighter like the Falcon versus fighters?" And FGD offered an answer to that question and noted that it was pretty consistently the case that about four fighters was a serious threat to the ship when it was moderately crewed. But then he noted that in TLJ we see a radically different take where the Falcon , despite not having flown in years (per TFA, which takes place hours before TLJ) and only being crewed by its co-pilot and Rey, who's never been in a gunner's turret before, is able to take on an entire contingent of First Order fighters alone, even killing three TIEs with a single shot. This is starkly incongrous with the past seven films' portrayal of freighter vs fighters.

I then added that this is an extension of the across-the-board powercreep that has happened in the ST.


How is this not relevant?


PS: you're 'yet another corner' to paint a critic in attempt is, just for the record, inaccurate. I did not dislike TLJ because it didn't play out as I had imagined it would. I disliked it for the blatant powercreep, the disregard for established physical rules of the built Star Wars world, the lazy storyline riddled with plotholes (straight line chase), the ineffective and non-stop humor, the embarrassing incompetence of the First Order, force ghosts slinging lightning bolts, the revealation that the Force tips the scales of the Galaxy so that Light can balance Dark or vice versa, rendering any struggle between Good and Evil moot, the implausible character decisions, etc. etc. etc. ... Even if the plot would have been something entirely different (even aligning with my own expectations, to the extend that I had any) I would have still hated TLJ had it still had all of these flaws and wanton disregard for the rules of the built universe. To subvert expectations is one thing (and films that try to surprise audiences or reign in plot armor are admirable, in my opinion), but to subvert all of the rules of the built-world you're telling a story in... well that's just bad story telling.

3 hours ago, LordBlades said:

For me, the main issue has been the way it breaks established lore on multiple aspects, invalidating several cool moments from the OT and prequels in the process.

For example, the battle of Yavin and Luke's Force-aided shot look a lot less dramatic when you consider the Rebels could have just Holdo-ed a bunch of transports through the Death Star for the same result.

Similarly, Rey's ability with the Force and lightsabers makes most other Force users, including Anakin 'the Chosen One' Skywalker, look like a bunch of chumps.

1: The rules of star wars' physics are astonishingly well paid attention to. Every single fleet engagement was accurate. Every. Single. Detail. About ship to ship combat. Was perfectly accurate to the last nearly forty years of building.
2: Some humor wasn't necessary, starting the movie off with yo mama was dumb, yes. I agree with this.
3: You... Do realize... Yoda didn't sling a bolt? "More powerful than you could ever imagine", "Once with the force", "The force is an energy field that surrounds all life, it binds it, penetrates it." - and somehow, Yoda calling lightning from the sky is... in...feasible to you..?
4: Yeah this balance thing has literally always been in play? Like. Literally. Always. That is a THING. There has never ever been an absolute victory of good or evil in the force because it doesn't work that way. When Vader killed Obi-Wan, an imlanance occurred. When Yoda died, the scales tipped further- luke had to make up for two gone. When Vader and Palpatine died, Luke was all that was left- and that he ever truly counted was always dubious at best, given how he struggled with his impulses VS. the light side's teachings. You watched Star Wars, right?
5: Implausible decisions. Where do I even start with the previous films?
6: No big rules were broken aside from narrative ones. Honest to god, nothing huge was broken.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really. The hyperspace thing. We're doing this. We're doing this, despite it being an issues since The Clone Wars TV series? Really? It shocks me that TLJ is when people start addressing the problems with Hyperspace. You do know Hyperspace has ZERO rules, right? It has no measurable speed, no quantifiable mechanics, nothing. All we can really say about it, is that it lets you suddenly go very fast away to god knows where, and come out very fast from god knows where. We know nothing about Hyperspace because it always functions exactly as the plot demands it... So a hyperspace ram is no different from speeding the malevolence into a moon, or a star destroyer coming out in precisely the right location to blow up one very unfortunate transport.

Also Rey's... Not that impressive with a Lightsaber. Like. She's really not that incredible. Without Ben she would have been COMPLETELY and utterly helpless in this film. Like. Totally.

Sorry @HERO , looks like The Last Jedi police have come to take over the thread. There's never really any stopping these arguments, it's a rot that infests all of Star Wars fandom now.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

1: The rules of star wars' physics are astonishingly well paid attention to. Every single fleet engagement was accurate. Every. Single. Detail. About ship to ship combat. Was perfectly accurate to the last nearly forty years of building.
2: Some humor wasn't necessary, starting the movie off with yo mama was dumb, yes. I agree with this.
3: You... Do realize... Yoda didn't sling a bolt? "More powerful than you could ever imagine", "Once with the force", "The force is an energy field that surrounds all life, it binds it, penetrates it." - and somehow, Yoda calling lightning from the sky is... in...feasible to you..?
4: Yeah this balance thing has literally always been in play? Like. Literally. Always. That is a THING. There has never ever been an absolute victory of good or evil in the force because it doesn't work that way. When Vader killed Obi-Wan, an imlanance occurred. When Yoda died, the scales tipped further- luke had to make up for two gone. When Vader and Palpatine died, Luke was all that was left- and that he ever truly counted was always dubious at best, given how he struggled with his impulses VS. the light side's teachings. You watched Star Wars, right?
5: Implausible decisions. Where do I even start with the previous films?
6: No big rules were broken aside from narrative ones. Honest to god, nothing huge was broken.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really. The hyperspace thing. We're doing this. We're doing this, despite it being an issues since The Clone Wars TV series? Really? It shocks me that TLJ is when people start addressing the problems with Hyperspace. You do know Hyperspace has ZERO rules, right? It has no measurable speed, no quantifiable mechanics, nothing. All we can really say about it, is that it lets you suddenly go very fast away to god knows where, and come out very fast from god knows where. We know nothing about Hyperspace because it always functions exactly as the plot demands it... So a hyperspace ram is no different from speeding the malevolence into a moon, or a star destroyer coming out in precisely the right location to blow up one very unfortunate transport.

Also Rey's... Not that impressive with a Lightsaber. Like. She's really not that incredible. Without Ben she would have been COMPLETELY and utterly helpless in this film. Like. Totally.

Sorry @HERO , looks like The Last Jedi police have come to take over the thread. There's never really any stopping these arguments, it's a rot that infests all of Star Wars fandom now.

Dude, you're kinda being a jerk. It's OK for people to disagree with you and have their own opinions about a movie. Cool your internet jets. I've stated my displeasure with TLJ but never my displeasure with a person or the people who are fans of the film. You're doing exactly that, labeling people that don't agree with you. I don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me, but we all have to be civil. Don't be a jerk.

This thread is why we can't have nice criticisms about Star Wars. People from one side can't accept there was good in the movie, and people on the other will Thermopylae-style defend any of its stupidest parts to any single criticism. I think discussions like this are good for any fandom, especially with "meh" pieces of art. Censoring, straw-manning, and screaming over the other side does nothing to further this discussion. And that is why we're stuck as a fandom, as opposed to moving further like we did with the prequels.

1 hour ago, player3010587 said:

This thread is why we can't have nice criticisms about Star Wars. People from one side can't accept there was good in the movie, and people on the other will Thermopylae-style defend any of its stupidest parts to any single criticism. I think discussions like this are good for any fandom, especially with "meh" pieces of art. Censoring, straw-manning, and screaming over the other side does nothing to further this discussion. And that is why we're stuck as a fandom, as opposed to moving further like we did with the prequels.

IMO, this issue appears in most Fandoms, but the bigger the IP, the more visible it is. People are emotionally invested in their vision of the universe they love, and they feel the need to prove their vision is the correct one.

6 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

IMO, this issue appears in most Fandoms, but the bigger the IP, the more visible it is. People are emotionally invested in their vision of the universe they love, and they feel the need to prove their vision is the correct one.

Large exception to the rule, when we fight over things in Middle Earth fandoms, it always comes down to something casual or silly like "**** you! Balrogs don't have wings, and yet we both have deep respect for Alan Lee's influential interpretations of them with them. After all, he altered Cirith Ungol to be more fascinating for paintings." There is a general camaraderie in the fanbase as well as a general gushing over what we like and a few mild criticisms over what we didn't (because yes, not even the epic tome The Lord of the Rings is perfect). I think it helps that it was written by a single genius with a single vision, who wrote consistently for a consistent audience, that lends the fanbase its maturity. As for the fanfiction fanbases covering games and films...just pretend those don't exist, lol.

Also, he was extremely patient with his craft. There are numerous drafts of the final product, including the very fascinating The Treason of Isenguard .

4 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Large exception to the rule, when we fight over things in Middle Earth fandoms, it always comes down to something casual or silly like "**** you! Balrogs don't have wings, and yet we both have deep respect for Alan Lee's influential interpretations of them with them. After all, he altered Cirith Ungol to be more fascinating for paintings." There is a general camaraderie in the fanbase as well as a general gushing over what we like and a few mild criticisms over what we didn't (because yes, not even the epic tome The Lord of the Rings is perfect). I think it helps that it was written by a single genius with a single vision, who wrote consistently for a consistent audience, that lends the fanbase its maturity. As for the fanfiction fanbases covering games and films...just pretend those don't exist, lol.

What about The Hobbit movie though? I have seen plenty of back and forth online bashing on that topic.

10 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What about The Hobbit movie though? I have seen plenty of back and forth online bashing on that topic.

I feel like the "powercreep" we see in the actions of Legolas and the Dwarves in the Hobbit movies (especially the deleted scenes of BoFA) is very much analogous to the sort of powercreep we see from Poe in the Sequel Trilogy. ?

12 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What about The Hobbit movie though? I have seen plenty of back and forth online bashing on that topic.

Did JRRR Tolkien write that movie? No, as that is included in the mixed bags of "fan films" that I earlier discussed. It is not tolkien. I am talking about tolkien communities focused solely on the writings, sometimes perhaps focused with very loyal depictions of those writings, such as War of the Ring.

Just now, player3010587 said:

Did JRRR Tolkien write that movie? No, as that is included in the mixed bags of "fan films" that I earlier discussed. It is not tolkien. I am talking about tolkien communities focused solely on the writings, sometimes perhaps focused with very loyal depictions of those writings, such as War of the Ring.

And yes, this means that I see any piece of adaptation as a work of fanfiction, as no true adapter could replicate the exact thought process and expressions of the original. it does not make adaptations somehow a bad form of art, I mean, look at Disney's animated Beauty and the Beast . That is a far cry adaptation of the original fairy tale by adapting an adaptation of that fairy tale. Yet, although painting with different strokes than the original source, it has its own merits on the same topic. Intertextuality is not a bad thing, especially with earnest and honest adaptations like the LOTR films. As opposed to the lazy, cynical, and outright middle finger of Hobbit films made by the fallen giant that had been swallowed up in his pride and over-estimation, **** those.

7 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I feel like the "powercreep" we see in the actions of Legolas and the Dwarves in the Hobbit movies (especially the deleted scenes of BoFA) is very much analogous to the sort of powercreep we see from Poe in the Sequel Trilogy. ?

The very reason for that is more akin to how films in general are developing nowadays, especially action films. Rather than decent writing, it has to outdo predecessors in cheap and instant eye candy, even if said eye candy crosses the line into the impossibility of Willy Wonka.