https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/8/15/lord-of-subterfuge/

So you can make him quite a decent bane giver-outer at range! He is then kinda like Maro in the fact he can heal himself, but only when a tray is destroyed...also works in melee!

Tabletop Admiral updated

Give that artifact too kari and make her heal ^^

2 minutes ago, Datskor said:

Give that artifact too kari and make her heal ^^

Was just about to say that.

Kari, you're so gross.

Just realised that Baron Z can throw out blight, may be a good synergy with rune golems?

Cool. Viscera Goblet except better in most ways. It can’t store for later, but triggers more often.

The thing that makes it balanced and good to me is the heroes available. Kari’s surge won’t trigger this as it can’t hurt the defender. Hawthorne does the most damage with Margath, which wouldn’t trigger this.

So so it goes on BaronZ, who can use it but isn’t quite the melee monster Ravos is.

Why wont Karis surge trigger it?

4 minutes ago, Datskor said:

Why wont Karis surge trigger it?

The artifact trigger specifies the Defender has to lose a tray. That would be the target of your attack.

Kari's surge explicitly says another unit, which excludes the defender. That unit would not be considered a Defender for this context.

29 minutes ago, Datskor said:

Just realised that Baron Z can throw out blight, may be a good synergy with rune golems?

I'd rather immobilize at range 5 !

That white hit modifier is awesome! Though being able to shoot and shift back can be nice too.

12 minutes ago, Datskor said:

Why wont Karis surge trigger it?

SotSR only works on the "defender" which is the original target of the attack. Kari's ability is essentially splash damage so doesn't proc SotSR.

It would work however, with Hawthorne's ability if he manages to swing at two different targets in one turn with say, Sweeping Strikes for example.

Looking at Nerekhall Training and Baron Zachareth's ability to hand out banes, what do you think about a ranged Daqan list where you replace Tempered Steel on your 3x1 Heavy Crossbowmen with Corruption Rune? Bring two of those bad boys along with Baron Zachareth, and you can really slow your opponents down. Maybe add a Rune Golem blocker or two in case the Corruption Runes flop and just give panic tokens. This could be a really frustrating list.

Also fun fact: Lingering Dead completely gets around Nerekhall Training Shard of the Shadow Rune because by the time they lose trays, they are no longer the defender. Reanimates for the win!

So I'm gonna say his dial is decent, as heroes go. An option to march at I2, short as it is, is strong, and he has a great set of mobility options to go with his ranged attack. Otherwise it's a bit clumsy, so he's no Kethra or Hawthorne.

As Saviour, he can only hand out a Vitality token every other round , though receiving the condition will often give him an Inspiration. Might be reasonable to expect 4 additional Vitality tokens over the course of a game, which ain't bad. He'll still be fighting, which he's ok at, but mostly he'll be giving you toughness where you need it most. Shard of the Shadow Rune in this case helps him bank Inspiration and makes up for not selfishly hoarding the Vitality tokens.

edit: can in fact hand out a token every round if he rallies all game

At Betrayer, his personal output goes up significantly. It's hard to know, but I think stunning allies will end up being a pretty minor cost. Nerekhall training becomes vastly more reliable with a second die, and in some cases a Blight or Stun will be just as good as a Vitality token. Decent damage at range, decent damage in melee, and VERY tough, especially with Shard - spending Vitality tokens appears to be optional, so you can choose to let some wounds through to trigger it more often. Regenerating two wounds per turn is pretty serious.

Without having seen the other upgrades, I think Betrayer is the clear winner unless you can make excellent use of the rally for your army.

44 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

replac  e   Tempered Steel on your 3x1 Heavy Crossbowmen with Corruption Run    e

You would be locked to whatever range for red runes. However, adding it to your rune golem blocker would make a nice active screen.

Ooo, a hero who can match a charge from RT Leonx! This guy is going to shake things up.

I feel like he wants a rune golem blocker buddy nearby at most times. It would let him really make use of those green actions.

Anything charging at him at i5 or higher is in danger of immobillize.

Vitality tokens are boons (I believe) so susceptible to the usual moral cards that discard them?

21 minutes ago, Suhawk75 said:

Vitality tokens are boons (I believe) so susceptible to the usual moral cards that discard them?

It's been sounding this way, yes.

The Baron seems very rail roaded into a specific build.

Baron Z
Nerekhail Training
SotSR
48 points

Why would you take anything else on him?

Also, whilst I like the options he brings, it will be interesting to see how he influences the game considering that Lord V, Lord F and Thu'ur/Gorgemaw will be out, shaking things up.

I've been thinking about whether the Shadow Rune would be useful with an Artifact Bearer. It's a tough call, but some builds may benefit - depending on how many other exhaustible upgrades the unit has - because it replaces using inspiration tokens to ready several cards with using an inspiration token to ready a single card that then refreshes all others with the free rally. In addition, it also limits the ability to snipe the rune golem out of a spearmen blocks by providing a heal ability. It doesn't feel good enough yet but a few more exaustable upgrades (or multi-wound Daqan infantry) might make it work.

1 hour ago, tall thin climber said:

I've been thinking about whether the Shadow Rune would be useful with an Artifact Bearer. It's a tough call, but some builds may benefit - depending on how many other exhaustible upgrades the unit has - because it replaces using inspiration tokens to ready several cards with using an inspiration token to ready a single card that then refreshes all others with the free rally. In addition, it also limits the ability to snipe the rune golem out of a spearmen blocks by providing a heal ability. It doesn't feel good enough yet but a few more exaustable upgrades (or multi-wound Daqan infantry) might make it work. 

As you can choose to use the vitality token or take a wound i would imagine that the SotSR can be used quite effectivly indeed.

3 hours ago, Datskor said:

As you can choose to use the vitality token or take a wound i would imagine that the SotSR can be used quite effectivly indeed.

How does a vitality token work with a figure upgrade in a large unit? The article says " When a unit in possession of a vitality token would suffer one or more wounds, this new type of boon token can be spent to reduce the number of wounds suffered by one!"

However, not all wounds are created equal -- given that the armor of a figure upgrade makes it cost more. Are you able to distinguish *which* wound is being reduced? I.e if it was a spearman block am I simply removing a 1 armor wound, or could I specify that this vitality token is protecting one wound on the accuracy-applied figure, so now you have to spend double to hit that figure?

3 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

How does a vitality token work with a figure upgrade in a large unit? The article says " When a unit in possession of a vitality token would suffer one or more wounds, this new type of boon token can be spent to reduce the number of wounds suffered by one!"

However, not all wounds are created equal -- given that the armor of a figure upgrade makes it cost more. Are you able to distinguish *which* wound is being reduced? I.e if it was a spearman block am I simply removing a 1 armor wound, or could I specify that this vitality token is protecting one wound on the accuracy-applied figure, so now you have to spend double to hit that figure?

An excellent question to which we'll have no answer until (at least) the formal rules text for Vitality tokens are released.

5 hours ago, tall thin climber said:

I've been thinking about whether the Shadow Rune would be useful with an Artifact Bearer. It's a tough call, but some builds may benefit - depending on how many other exhaustible upgrades the unit has - because it replaces using inspiration tokens to ready several cards with using an inspiration token to ready a single card that then refreshes all others with the free rally. In addition, it also limits the ability to snipe the rune golem out of a spearmen blocks by providing a heal ability. It doesn't feel good enough yet but a few more exaustable upgrades (or multi-wound Daqan infantry) might make it work.

This is a very cool idea which is making me wish you could take an Artifact Bearer and Lance Corporal.

Haven’t seen anyone bring this up elsewhere, so forgive me if it’s already been discussed, but anyone else excited for the “synergy” between Baron Z and a Spearstar? Yes it applies to all spearmen, but I think it’s important to point out the Spearstar in particular.

Ive always struggled with the right synergy for my spearmen. I love the init3 attack, but have never really had a fully justified use for the skill modifier, and found myself bringing upgrades just so I wasn’t “wasting it”. That’s what always drove me more toward using Lance Corporal.

I’m excited to try out Baron Z with a fully loaded Spearstar, because if ever there was a unit I could live with wasting the modifier for a good cause, that could be it. Add in an aggressive cornicern to ensure the stuns never ruin your plans outside combat, and if “allies” do in fact include figure upgrades, then I have three prime candidates for you in CWM, FL Golem, and the cornicern.

I know that makes for a pretty thick Spearstar, but with the added health that’s a pretty reliable long term damage source. I also think Spearstars can come back with the relative lack of excessive blight in the game right now.

Playing around with this build, I still have room for two 3x1 Crossbows with Rank/TS and a blocker golem (Have to drop the Aggressive down to a marching and 1point bid, but I still like it) so I definitely think this can be a strong list.

thoughts? Counter arguments?

On 8/15/2018 at 9:23 AM, Parakitor said:

Also fun fact: Lingering Dead completely gets around Nerekhall Training Shard of the Shadow Rune because by the time they lose trays, they are no longer the defender. Reanimates for the win!

Forgive the thread necromancy, but watching @TheWiseGuy 's unboxing of Prince Faolan, I noticed that the objective, "Battle of Champions" also has a reference to destroying enemy trays. That got me thinking that maybe Lingering Dead doesn't circumvent these effects. Sure enough, RR 27 answered that handily:

"A tray of figures is destroyed when every figure has been removed from that tray."

Even though the tray stays, if there are no figures in it, it is considered destroyed. So I was wrong. Lingering Dead is still good, but doesn't counter Shard of the Shadow Rune, nor does it bypass the effects of the Battle of Champions objective. Now I know.

12 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Forgive the thread necromancy, but watching @TheWiseGuy 's unboxing of Prince Faolan, I noticed that the objective, "Battle of Champions" also has a reference to destroying enemy trays. That got me thinking that maybe Lingering Dead doesn't circumvent these effects. Sure enough, RR 27 answered that handily:

"A tray of figures is destroyed when every figure has been removed from that tray."

Even though the tray stays, if there are no figures in it, it is considered destroyed. So I was wrong. Lingering Dead is still good, but doesn't counter Shard of the Shadow Rune, nor does it bypass the effects of the Battle of Champions objective. Now I know.

Really cool insight thanks for writing it all out Coles notes style for me