not sure how ablative plating is undercosted.

its 4pts for +2hp only against YOUR bombs or you hitting a rock. Thats a very limited source of damage its actually blocking.

Yeah ablative is fine where it is. It's making me second guess whether I want 2HP for 4pts that only works on my own bombs, or 1HP for 3 with Hull Upgrade that works on everything. That it's not a clear decision says the price is correct.

Also can confirm, punisher melts just like in 1st ed. This is a pretty big balancing factor on basically every ship now, which is wonderful.

Also don't believe it's cheap at all, it's appropriately costed.

For example,

Runs you more than Soontir/Whisper, only 1 point less than Vermeil with Darth-mother-loving-Vader and 0-0-0, and only seems cheap in comparison to the WILDLY overpriced Defenders. Plus, apart from the bombs, it's slinging out the same offense as a 34 point TIE bomber with its rockets .

Redline is even pricier, running at what I consider a BARE minimum of Sensors + Proton missiles + Clusters @ 66 points. Fifth Bro has also proved great on him, so he's 78 points. That's more than Vader!

I would be sorely disappointed if the named Punishers got a cost bump when they're so dependent on good maneuvering to not lose in a single round

That is a ridiculously overloaded Punisher you've crafted there. You can take half those upgrades off, especially if you're arguing that they melt!

I dare say if you are running a punisher at more than 60 points you are doing it wrong. 55 point range seems like the sweet spot.

11 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

- - -

Yeah, K-Wings are in a really weird place now.

I think I like that they don't really have a direct analogue anymore. They're probably closest to the Scurrg now, as a turreted bomber. Thing is, they kinda feel like they lack the right tricks to fit into one role particularly well. Bombs and SLAMing out of the way seems to be the best fit, but then you don't get to use your turrets. Missile and torps seem equally pointless as they have no target lock tricks to help them fire it, and they can't fire them after a SLAM either.

They have a crew slot, but no obviously worthwhile crew other than Sabine.

I'm wondering about a Magva Yarro torp carrier, but Dutch seems like a much cheaper, better platform for fixed forward ordnance lists.

The same is true for the gunner slot. They're probably going to be using those primary turrets so rarely that I don't see much point in any gunner other than Bombardier, and even if you were using the turrets, all the turret gunners are expensive for effects that don't benefit the K's turrets a whole lot anyway.

I know a lot of people will be happy about that, after Miranda's 1e domination for so long. But I actually like the big ugly K-Wing, I'd like it to be viable as what it's supposed to be - a heavy ordnance platform that you can load up with versatile munitions to be flexible - rather than a turret-y regen monster. As originally written, the K-Wing wasn't supposed to have any guns at all.

What about Barrage Rockets + other Ordnance? If you Rotate arc to the left+right, you get close to 360 arc. I would think this would feel a lot like a gunship or something. Throw Proton Bombs on with SB, you have a pseudo 360 degree coverage. You don't have to have a Lock to have some decent damage output and can hunt around for a good opportunity to use Locked ordnance.

I've only flown the 1.0 K-Wing once, so I only have some grasp on it, but yeah, it's still kinda one-of-a-kind.

I'm pretty happy with a Cutlass carrying Trajectory, Protons, and Seismics.

It's 47 points, eliminates obstacles used by Dash/Han, forces swarms to break up, restricts movement of lower ship count squads, and is a solid blocker.

It's a very useful 47 points.

Guys...calm down, get a Handel on the situation, AND PARTY LIKE IT'S WAVE 3!!!!!!!!1!!!1!1!1!@@!

11 minutes ago, SOTL said:

That is a ridiculously overloaded Punisher you've crafted there. You can take half those upgrades off, especially if you're arguing that they melt!

You'd think that until you've actually flown it and realized how much Deathrain needs two sets of devices to trigger his ability

You'll have to actually put him on the table to arrive at that conclusion, ofc, so let me just say that's the CHEAPEST Deathrain possible if you want a ship worth a ****

Every upgrade there is ESSENTIAL. Without simulator he's worthless, without rockets (the cheapest ordnance) he's a Tie fighter, and without ablative you're just killing yourself

Abuse his ability well and he won't die. Don't and he will. It's very well balanced

Edit: whoops, I left Skilled Bombardier. You can cut that!

I think you discount the area of denial just simply *having a projectable proton bomb* available provides. You set up a pretty big NOPE! zone with them and can funnel swarms and other low health aces where you want based on their sheer existence. A 3 point homing missile can knock the stealth device off of Soontir, or eat away at something like the Inquisitor while providing the anvil for two other hammers in your list to collapse on.

3 point homing is really difficult to land when you have a TL requirement against a higher Initiative pilot with extreme maneuverability (also remember the opponent chooses its effect)

Barrage Rockets are in a whole other league of ordnance in comparison. There's absolutely no reason to not spend the paltry 3 points to upgrade them given what you gain from the FOCUS requirement alone

Not to mention that in deathrain's specific case, you really want another 3 points of Seismics to get his ability working. His ability is kinda amazing.

And if you're just shaving 6 points (3 in 1st ed), it's really not worth a **** given what you lose

If you're running generics, I'd drop Seismics (because they don't have deathrain's ability)

Again there's an opportunity cost. If you are forcing an ace to get out of your arc, then you are denying them other tokens/actions/stressing them and setting up for more predictable moves next turn. A cheap punisher is as much control as it is actually damaging things. I was running Rexler and Maarek with Redline. In the future I'll look at swapping out Maarek with Whisper + Juke. The points are there.

16 minutes ago, viedit said:

Again there's an opportunity cost. If you are forcing an ace to get out of your arc, then you are denying them other tokens/actions/stressing them and setting up for more predictable moves next turn. A cheap punisher is as much control as it is actually damaging things. I was running Rexler and Maarek with Redline. In the future I'll look at swapping out Maarek with Whisper + Juke. The points are there.

100% agree, and it's why I'd advocate taking 2 because the cumulative impact of the amount of table you're covering is massive on your opponent's options.