22 minutes ago, Stinger07 said:

I am just wondering why red moves are talked down upon. As if a player is suddenly a bad player because they expect to use red moves in a game. Everyone uses them.

1.0 became such a cluster of stacked actions and tokens & the ships that depended on them, that depriving oneself for even a single turn came to be viewed as tantamount to conceding the game.

Jousting with token stacks was the training wheels. Outflying your opponent using all your maneuvers is where the 2.0 game begins (I hope).

4 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

1.0 became such a cluster of stacked actions and tokens & the ships that depended on them, that depriving oneself for even a single turn came to be viewed as tantamount to conceding the game.

Jousting with token stacks was the training wheels. Outflying your opponent using all your maneuvers is where the 2.0 game begins (I hope).

I am not talking token stacks here. I'm talking about the connotation that red maneuvers make you a bad player. That they are bad.

They aren't bad, they are powerful, and come with an associated consequence. Red maneuvers can (potentially) allow you to outfly your opponents.

1 minute ago, Stinger07 said:

I am not talking token stacks here. I'm talking about the connotation that red maneuvers make you a bad player. That they are bad.

They aren't bad, they are powerful, and come with an associated consequence. Red maneuvers can (potentially) allow you to outfly your opponents.

I agree; it's all about opportunity cost. Yes, taking a stress limits my choices, but if there's a high enough reward, it can be worth it. Which is better? To take an action and lose or to sacrifice an action and win? It doesn't always come out to so stark a divide, but red maneuvers (and red actions, now) can be an incredibly potent tool if used properly, especially if the opponent isn't expecting it.

I would say that taking a red maneuver is actually thinking farther out than not taking one. You've planned at least two turns out if you did it right. Your red, AND your next blue. Sure, you lose your action that turn (except in advanced sensors case). But its yet another great tool to have in your ship maneuvering toolbox. I use them all the time!

If they were truly bad, wouldn't decimators and gunboats be our overlords by now?

2 minutes ago, Jyico said:

I would say that taking a red maneuver is actually thinking farther out than not taking one. You've planned at least two turns out if you did it right. Your red, AND your next blue. Sure, you lose your action that turn (except in advanced sensors case). But its yet another great tool to have in your ship maneuvering toolbox. I use them all the time!

If they were truly bad, wouldn't decimators and gunboats be our overlords by now?

The strongest ship in 1.0 never executed a red move.

1 minute ago, Jyico said:

If they were truly bad, wouldn't decimators and gunboats be our overlords by now?

Well no, but the Moldy Crow and Marauder are vying for that position and they never need to red manuever...

Kidding, of course (about reds being bad, but NOT about moldy and Marauder boba being CRAZY)

There's nothing wrong with reds, they're a well balanced aspect of the game. Just gotta think about when you try to pull them off, as was always the case

5 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The strongest ship in 1.0 never executed a red move.

Excellent point. I believe this was in combination with a lot of things though... like blowing up your enemy before needing to turn around. The commonwealth defenders list likely never executed a red maneuver with 2 of the 3 ships either. Are pure alpha ships also the same way? Quad TLT also likely never executed a red.

Its all about the options, and I think having the option of a red maneuver is a lot better than not having the option. Keeps your opponent guessing if you're actually going to execute on a "bad" maneuver for optimal position or not.

A maneuver that puts you in optimal position is, by definition, not a bad maneuver. /thread

The whole point of 2.0 is to get back to a game of positioning and away from the hyper efficient combo-wing we have in 1.0.

Whilst I understand why some people would prefer not to do red manoeuvres to keep their actions and be more 'efficient', that is very predictable. With lower action economy and higher dice variance as a result, dodging shots are more important than ever. That will accentuate the necessity for red manoeuvres and in turn make Elusive's recharge more valuable and usable.

Not to mention its one of very few cards in the game that will let you reroll green dice. I wouldn't go out of my way to pull risky red moves just to recharge Elusive, but it will come in handy, whether thats when you're token'd up and blank out, or as insurance for when you pull those riskier red moves to outmanoeuvre your opponent.

Obviously mileage will vary dial to dial, but I think this will be a strong card on ships that can take advantage of it, as many have already mentioned.

Huh? Red moves are just red moves.

A blue move or white move can be just as bad if not planned accordingly.

Elusiveness is great. Passive defense is powerful. And for just 3pts.

16 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The strongest ship in 1.0 never executed a red move.

They also had turrets and/or broken repositioning.

I haven't seen anyone bring this up yet but Elusiveness is going to be stapled to Chopper Astromech for me, especially on the E-Wing with Advanced Sensors.

(63) Rogue Squadron Escort
(3) Elusive
(2) "Chopper"
(8) Advanced Sensors
Points 76