Been lurking here for a while, so I thought it was about time to throw up a fleet for some feedback. First the fleet, then I’ll post a bit of my thought process. Any suggestions, comments, feedback is welcome.

Up Close & Personal with Commander Sato (398/400)
Rebels - Author: Fithian Rankin

Commander: Commander Sato

Objectives: Fire Lanes, Sensor Net, Station Assault

[flagship] MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
- Commander Sato (32)
- Aspiration (3)
- Early Warning System (7)
- Strategic Adviser (4)
- Ordnance Pods (3)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 160 total points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
- Admonition (8)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 82 total points

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
- Garel's Honor (4)
- External Racks (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 47 total points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
- Bright Hope (2)
- Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 25 total points

Squadrons (84/134):
2x VCX-100 Freighter (30)
1x Tycho Celchu A-Wing Squadron (16)
1x Millennium Falcon - Han Solo (26)
1x HWK-290 (12)

I've been trying to play my way through the (Rebel) commanders to get a feel for them. With regard to Sato, I was aware of geek19's review of him and the frustration of having your long-ranged back crits stripped out by evade tokens ( http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/06/know-your-enemycommanders-corner-jun.html ). However, while reading snipafist's review of wide-area barrage ( http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/ordnance-upgrades-review-or-how-i.html ), where he noted that it's only really worth it on Sato due to his piles of black dice, it clicked with me that it might be fun to try to build a short-ranged Sato fleet and just embrace the black dice power.

So, basically, that's the idea here. This fleet wants to get right up in your face and use Sato sort of like external racks for all of the ships. It can definitely put out a surprising amount of damage.

I've been tweaking it off and on for a while (mostly the squadrons and various builds on the transports). I've had pretty good success with it in casual play, but I went 0-2 when I brought it to our recent store championship. I've been able reflect on some of my misplays that led to my defeat at the store championship, but I'm sure that there are weaknesses in the build that can be improved. Why not let the community have a whack at it?

Cheers!

Looks good. You have the correct amount of squadrons for Sato. Anything below 70 points risks being locked down too easily and then you don't get the benefit from Sato. Anything above 100 points and you don't really have enough combat ships to make use of Sato's bonuses either.

I would take E-Racks on the MC75 in place of the Ordnance pods. You won't be in close for long so make it count.

Try combat flotillas rather than transports. The one blue dice can become 2 black with Sato and a CF dial and they get better flak ranges. Drop Expanded hangar and maybe Aspiration and take a Comms net. Now in early turns you can give out squadron tokens to the MC75 or Admonition to help with flinging Tycho at ships just before you shoot them.

Fighters look fine. VCXs help with your missions but you could take Shara and an A-wing or second HWK. If you did drop the VCXs then Hyperspace Assault & Solar Corona could be less token dependant alternatives.

2 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

Looks good. You have the correct amount of squadrons for Sato. Anything below 70 points risks being locked down too easily and then you don't get the benefit from Sato. Anything above 100 points and you don't really have enough combat ships to make use of Sato's bonuses either.

Thanks! I think I stole the squadron component from one of the Steel Squadron guys ?

Good thoughts on the points range for Sato squadrons. I’ll definitely keep that in mind if I tweak them around.

As a Sato player for the last few months or so, I like where your list is going. Here are my thoughts on your list:

1. I have found that ECM is worth more than EWS. Being able to use your brace/redirect is very important, especially after you move your shields with Aspiration. You want those two shield zones attacked first so you can use eng commands later in the game.

2. I haven't used Ordnance Pods yet, but will this weekend at another store championship I am going to. Have they worked well for you?

3. Han Solo is a nice touch to the list (I love Han), but he is worth too many points and will get focused on quickly by your opponent as you will need to keep him closer to the action since he only has speed 3. You could take those points and put another flotilla in your list to give you 5 activations. You also have no way to generate tokens, so put a comms net on that flotilla to give yourself some flexibility. I give my MC75OC and MC30T a squadron token right at the start so they can activate a squad to bring into range when I am ready to unload the big guns on a target. It will also allow you to drop the strategic adviser saving your even more points as I have found I didn't really need it with 5 activations. The officer slot on my MC75 has DCO on it instead. It helps it avoid crit effects that could really cripple you if the wrong damage cards gets turned up (I'm looking right at you Projector Misaligned). The last thing you need is to lose two 6 shield zones.

4. If I were you, I wouldn't use VCX's in your list. You need your squads to be moving forward at the right time so your Sato shots can go off. Farming tokens is nice, but not in a Sato list. Sato loves A-wings as you can hold them back from getting jumped by your opponents squads and then move distance 5 when needed. Also, make sure you have a HWK-290 around so that those A-wings can still move if somehow they get locked up.

5. I haven't tried using a hammerhead in my Sato list yet. Have you been able to get at least 2 rounds of shots off with it at close range?

As a final note, have fun with Sato. I have been having a LOT of fun throwing tons of black dice, especially with ACM on top of it. It just melts shields and once they are gone, all that damage goes straight to the hull. It's glorious!!!

For reference, here is what I am planning on running this weekend:

Sato's Black Plague
Author: itzSteve

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100 points)
- Aspiration ( 3 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Pods ( 3 points)
= 129 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
= 94 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 83 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
1 HWK-290 ( 12 points)
= 50 total squadron cost

I use a Assault Pelta to keep the MC75 alive. The MC75 has only died once in the 6 competitive games I have used it and it lets you fly the MC75 more aggressively. It really has great synergy with Aspiration since you can still move shields back to Aspiration after you move them during deployment. After round 2, the weak zones are practically back to full health. It also provides a very safe spot for Sato. The Pelta has NEVER died in a game. It just follows behind the MC75, moving shields and then it is used as a finishing ship if my opponent tries to escape on a couple of hull left after my MC75 attacks. You may think that the squads are too light to hold up, but I treat the list as a squadron less list. This changes how you think about your squads and how you activate them. I have only had one game where I lost all my squads to render Sato useless and it happened after my first strike so it's not like the MC75 is toothless shooting its normal dice anyways. The ship you were shooting at won't have any shields after the first strike so a normal shot is still going straight to the hull. Like I mentioned in the earlier post, I am using Ordnance Pods for the first time this weekend. I am still leaning towards External Racks, but to get a third shot off every round with OP is just too juicy of a thought to pass up, especially as I treat the list as squadron less. I also am bringing Leia for the first time as slicer tool protection and I also have a tendency to give my MC75 too many eng commands. Leia fixes that.

I hope my Sato thoughts help you out. Good luck with your list! ?

34 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

3. Han Solo is a nice touch to the list (I love Han), but he is worth too many points and will get focused on quickly by your opponent as you will need to keep him closer to the action since he only has speed 3. You could take those points and put another flotilla in your list to give you 5 activations. You also have no way to generate tokens, so put a comms net on that flotilla to give yourself some flexibility. I give my MC75OC and MC30T a squadron token right at the start so they can activate a squad to bring into range when I am ready to unload the big guns on a target. It will also allow you to drop the strategic adviser saving your even more points as I have found I didn't really need it with 5 activations. The officer slot on my MC75 has DCO on it instead. It helps it avoid crit effects that could really cripple you if the wrong damage cards gets turned up (I'm looking right at you Projector Misaligned). The last thing you need is to lose two 6 shield zones.

4. If I were you, I wouldn't use VCX's in your list. You need your squads to be moving forward at the right time so your Sato shots can go off. Farming tokens is nice, but not in a Sato list. Sato loves A-wings as you can hold them back from getting jumped by your opponents squads and then move distance 5 when needed. Also, make sure you have a HWK-290 around so that those A-wings can still move if somehow they get locked up.

I disagree with these two. Han is super useful as a spotter if first player, and generally as a grit squad. That said, it may come down to personal choice / meta / rest of fleet.

The VCXs are where I really disagree though. They aren't their for their keywords (although those may help on occasion), they are there to be 8 HP right next to your ship. they may melt to squads, but flak is nothing to them (Disclaimer: Raiders exist). Use them like that, and they don't disappoint.

Talking about hammerheads though (Because those are frequently my entire Sato fleet) they work well as a last/first for a massive amount of spike damage (5 black dice!), and a general pain from long range with Sato.

34 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I disagree with these two. Han is super useful as a spotter if first player, and generally as a grit squad. That said, it may come down to personal choice / meta / rest of fleet.

My reasoning boils down to the fact that I have been facing a lot of 8+ squad fleets lately (both Sloane and Thrawn). In one game I left Tycho to close to the action before my ship could get in range and watched him go up in flames before he could activate. What do you think will happen to Han, especially against a Sloane list? Grit does you no good if your opponent is sending a full activation of squads to take him out, or at least a couple to tie him down. It's 26pts. of squad that could be better used elsewhere. Han also wants to be in a fleet that goes first so he can fly into range before your first ship activates. Han's Rogue ability is basically useless as you want him in range before the squadron phase and you are paying for that ability in his cost. His list is not built to be a first player list.

41 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

The VCXs are where I really disagree though. They aren't their for their keywords (although those may help on occasion), they are there to be 8 HP right next to your ship. they may melt to squads, but flak is nothing to them (Disclaimer: Raiders exist). Use them like that, and they don't disappoint.

The VCX hull value was not my argument. They are in his list to farm tokens, but if your opponent doesn't bring strategic of his own, he won't be picking the Blue or Yellow objective. If they do, you have brought 30pts of squads that will not help Sato in any way. They will work fine for the Red objective as you are forcing your opponent to come to you and there are no tokens to manipulate, but again...there are cheaper alternatives out there to get the job done.

42 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

My reasoning boils down to the fact that I have been facing a lot of 8+ squad fleets lately (both Sloane and Thrawn). In one game I left Tycho to close to the action before my ship could get in range and watched him go up in flames before he could activate. What do you think will happen to Han, especially against a Sloane list? Grit does you no good if your opponent is sending a full activation of squads to take him out, or at least a couple to tie him down. It's 26pts. of squad that could be better used elsewhere. Han also wants to be in a fleet that goes first so he can fly into range before your first ship activates. Han's Rogue ability is basically useless as you want him in range before the squadron phase and you are paying for that ability in his cost. His list is not built to be a first player list. 

Sure, but if Sloane is heavy in your meta, reconsider Sato. Sloane wins the squad game, figure out a way to win the ship game, and maybe he doesn't work in this. I still don't think he is bad.

44 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

The VCX hull value was not my argument. They are in his list to farm tokens, but if your opponent doesn't bring strategic of his own, he won't be picking the Blue or Yellow objective. If they do, you have brought 30pts of squads that will not help Sato in any way. They will work fine for the Red objective as you are forcing your opponent to come to you and there are no tokens to manipulate, but again...there are cheaper alternatives out there to get the job done.

How will they not help Sato? They are a squadron with speed three and 8 hull, meaning they can lodge themselves in your ships arcs real well because they have that 8 hull.

5 hours ago, itzSteve said:

Han's Rogue ability is basically useless as you want him in range before the squadron phase and you are paying for that ability in his cost. His list is not built to be a first player list. 

Unless I missed an FAQ or misunderstood what you said, Han "always goes first" unless the opposing player also has Han and is first player. If the enemy is first player, your Han still activates first, before the enemy ships.

6 hours ago, itzSteve said:

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
= 94 total ship cost

?

No Fleet Command, no Pelta. You already pay a grand extra for the slot so you should definitely get the upgrade. You are very light on squadrons. Against an enemy who brought squadrons too, you will quickly struggle to use Sato's ability as A-Wings blow up extremely quickly. Why take Ordnance Pods? You already have Sato, so you want to fish for black crits at long / medium range and Ordnance Pods does nothing for you. You already have ACM, which is good, but I'd definitely take ER over OP at any time. Your anti-squadron game is to destroy the carrier ship as you got no anti-squad power on your own and OP alone won't do much for you.

2 hours ago, Heimdallson said:

Unless I missed an FAQ or misunderstood what you said, Han "always goes first" unless the opposing player also has Han and is first player. If the enemy is first player, your Han still activates first, before the enemy ships.

Yes, Han CAN go first in the ship phase. My main point was that is he too many points for his benefit, especially in a list that is designed to go second. Any opponent who brings squads will tie him up before he can get into range for Sato. Han going first only really benefits a Sato list that wants to go first.

2 hours ago, Heimdallson said:

No Fleet Command, no Pelta. You already pay a grand extra for the slot so you should definitely get the upgrade. You are very light on squadrons. Against an enemy who brought squadrons too, you will quickly struggle to use Sato's ability as A-Wings blow up extremely quickly. Why take Ordnance Pods? You already have Sato, so you want to fish for black crits at long / medium range and Ordnance Pods does nothing for you. You already have ACM, which is good, but I'd definitely take ER over OP at any time. Your anti-squadron game is to destroy the carrier ship as you got no anti-squad power on your own and OP alone won't do much for you.

I had STM! in my first test run with my list. It performed just alright. You only really need to use the fleet command maybe 3 times in a game. Not worth the points in my opinion. It may have kept my MC30 alive for another round of shooting. In my second test with the list, I removed STM! and put Raymus on it instead so I could move 2 shields and regen 2 shields in the same turn. I decided in my most recent list to remove Raymus as well and just use one of my comms net flotillas to pass a eng token to the Pelta for the same effect as I was running into too many games where I was generating tokens and had no ship to pass one to. The key to the Pelta is not the fleet command, it is the support slot for Projection Experts. It allows me to move shields back to the MC75s two weak zones after using Aspiration. It is also a very safe place for Sato as the Pelta never dies.

I know it looks like I am too squad light, but I am not. I recently faced a 8 Imp aces squad list (Sloane) and also a 8 Imp bomber list (Thrawn). I treat my list as if it is a squadron less fleet. The key is hiding the squads well enough to get the MC75 and the MC30 into close range of the ship I want to attack. Both ships will have a squad token to activate a A-wing to swoop into range before the ship shoots. I don't care how many squads my opponent brings, it can't be stopped for the initial attack run. Since I have no squad cover and I am very aggressive with my MC75, I am testing out Ordnance Pods to see if I can farm some squads to increase my MOV. Usually I have one comms net flotilla on one side of the MC75 and the Pelta on the other. I am hoping that the extra round of flak from the MC75 along with the flak from the two support ships makes a difference. If not, then it is back to External Racks for me.

As a last note, the goal with my Sato list is not the ability to shoot black dice at long/medium range, although I have had some success shooting at other big ships this way because they can't evade them. The list is designed to get right into the battle and get to close range as soon as possible. I want nothing but close range double arcs. Aspiration allows me to try and box a ship from getting past me and tank the first blow from my opponent. I then strip all the shields with the activation and then every other shot goes straight to the hull after that. The projection expert Pelta keeps it alive...

17 hours ago, itzSteve said:

2. I haven't used Ordnance Pods yet, but will this weekend at another store championship I am going to. Have they worked well for you?

I had good success with them early on (in another fleet) against a Sloane-led swarm, and I think that has colored my view of them. They can really get some work done, especially on an ordnance cruiser with OE. Especially if you can bring another ship's flak to bear, it is entirely possible to just wipe a sizable squadron component off the table in one or two rounds. Given your plan to use them to milk points out enemy squadrons, I suspect that they will serve you well. If...

And that's the main thing. If the opponent doesn't oblige you with squadrons, then they're wasted points. I don't think they've actually helped me out much in this fleet, and I'll probably swap them out for ex. racks. In my store championship I ran up against two essentially squadron-less fleets, and the pods didn't do a thing for me. I suspect that's why they are so cheaply costed for such a nice (and easy to underestimate) ability. They're really swingy game to game. In the right match-up they are really effective. But if lots of people are going squadron-less or squadron-lite, you will wish you had something else in that spot, even though it's only 3 points.

17 hours ago, itzSteve said:

5. I haven't tried using a hammerhead in my Sato list yet. Have you been able to get at least 2 rounds of shots off with it at close range?

Two rounds of shots? Not me!

But as Do I need a user name pointed out, the burst damage is a thing to behold. I one-shotted an arquitens from it's front arc in one of my games with this little guy, and it was a great moment.

17 hours ago, itzSteve said:

I use a Assault Pelta to keep the MC75 alive. The MC75 has only died once in the 6 competitive games I have used it and it lets you fly the MC75 more aggressively. It really has great synergy with Aspiration since you can still move shields back to Aspiration after you move them during deployment. After round 2, the weak zones are practically back to full health. It also provides a very safe spot for Sato. The Pelta has NEVER died in a game. It just follows behind the MC75, moving shields and then it is used as a finishing ship if my opponent tries to escape on a couple of hull left after my MC75 attacks.

That is intriguing.

15 hours ago, itzSteve said:

16 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

The VCXs are where I really disagree though. They aren't their for their keywords (although those may help on occasion), they are there to be 8 HP right next to your ship. they may melt to squads, but flak is nothing to them (Disclaimer: Raiders exist). Use them like that, and they don't disappoint.

The VCX hull value was not my argument. They are in his list to farm tokens, but if your opponent doesn't bring strategic of his own, he won't be picking the Blue or Yellow objective. If they do, you have brought 30pts of squads that will not help Sato in any way. They will work fine for the Red objective as you are forcing your opponent to come to you and there are no tokens to manipulate, but again...there are cheaper alternatives out there to get the job done.

Actually, you're both kind of right. ?

I originally had them in the list for some objective farming, although I never really expected to win the game that way. In my initial imagining of the list, I was really worried that my opponents would be able to keep me at a distance, so I wanted some "come and get me" objectives to give them an extra incentive to close with me. That being said, I've actually never played a game as second player with this fleet! Strategic has never come into it, but I have kept them around for the hull. They have survived every game I've used them in, so they have served me well to proc Sato's ability again and again. Of course, I've only played a few games with this fleet, and I've never flown it against a flight controllers Sloane ball trying to trash my squadrons.

2 hours ago, Fithian_Rankin said:

Actually, you're both kind of right. ?

I originally had them in the list for some objective farming, although I never really expected to win the game that way. In my initial imagining of the list, I was really worried that my opponents would be able to keep me at a distance, so I wanted some "come and get me" objectives to give them an extra incentive to close with me. That being said, I've actually never played a game as second player with this fleet! Strategic has never come into it, but I have kept them around for the hull. They have survived every game I've used them in, so they have served me well to proc Sato's ability again and again. Of course, I've only played a few games with this fleet, and I've never flown it against a flight controllers Sloane ball trying to trash my squadrons.

yeah, people get scared of fleets with 2+ strategic going second, so in some ways the VCX help with mind games. I also find they help vs. Ion cannons or other objectives the enemy may have with tokens, as they can backfire hard.

On 8/16/2018 at 4:35 AM, itzSteve said:

S   ince    I have no squad cover and I am very aggressive with my MC75, I am testing out Ordnance Pods to see if I c  an farm some squads to increase my MOV. Usuall  y I  have one comms net flotilla on one side of the MC  75 and the Pelta on the other. I am hoping that the extra round of flak from the MC75 along with the flak  from the two support ships makes a difference. I  f not, then it is back to External Racks for me.      

@itzSteve did you have a chance to field your Sato fleet last weekend? I’m wondering how you did with ordnance pods instead of ex racks.