Boba reads:

Setup: Start in reserve.

At the end of Setup, place yourself at range 0 of an obstacle and beyond range 3 of any enemy ship

Imagine if: both players bring relatively small rocks and place them in a circle, all at range 2 of a rock in the centre of the map. Quick snap of asteroid placement: http://imgur.com/fd3bgFQ

Both players have Boba crew, and so the player with initiative first places his large base Boba carrier on top of the center rock. The second player now has no place he can put his Boba carrier that's range 0 of a rock AND beyond range 3 of the enemy Boba carrier.

What happens next?

Guess they'll have to talk about it and come to an agreement and/or get the TO to make a ruling.

However, since about the only way this could possibly happen is if both players bring Boba Fett and then try to work together to deliberately break it for the second player I don't think it's likely to be an actual issue.

You did your scenario way too complex. You could just have said they place all of them in the smallest possible area all at range 1 of each other. You can cram them way more then you did.

And yes, it create a problem with mirror Boba. But as we seen with Old Man Han, starting outside the regular starting zone is not really usefull, so this will never happen... lol

2 hours ago, muribundi said:

You did your scenario way too complex. You could just have said they place all of them in the smallest possible area all at range 1 of each other. You can cram them way more then you did.

And yes, it create a problem with mirror Boba. But as we seen with Old Man Han, starting outside the regular starting zone is not really usefull, so this will never happen... lol

Gosh, I'd forgotten rocks could be r1 of each other. Its been so long since I've actually played!

That is kinda funny! Especially as Boba Fett Crew is mandatory for the 2018 Coruscant Invitational.

5 hours ago, erytas said:

That is kinda funny! Especially as Boba Fett Crew is mandatory for the 2018 Coruscant Invitational.

I hope someone there tries to "break" this exact scenario, then.

But in "real" games I expect, since rock placement/ship placement follows the same Initiative order, whoever goes second will just pick up the last rock and place it away from the others.

5 hours ago, erytas said:

That is kinda funny! Especially as Boba Fett Crew is mandatory for the 2018 Coruscant Invitational.

Hoooooo, I found that voting for Boba was already trolling as he is so useless... but now it is even better, we could literally see people troll the game !!! And if they try to not troll it, then it affect the way you place obstacle to make sure it does not happen, so it may mess up your placement lol

Be sure to bring Tobias Beckett too to really screw around.

I would guess the second player will be unable to play the Boba fett card and thus starts normally at the players edge of the board.

3 minutes ago, Dengars Toilet Paper said:

I would guess the second player will be unable to play the Boba fett card and thus starts normally at the players edge of the board.

I think technically Boba's ship remains in reserve for the rest of the game, but this does seem to be the fairest compromise.

Here's another oddball interpretation: Boba remains in reserve until such a time there exists a game-state where there he could be placed at Range 0 of an obstacle outside of Range 3 of any enemy ships. Perhaps that's never, perhaps that allows Boba to slide in at some interesting angle at the right moment. I can't think of a rules reason why this would be the case, but it'd be wicked amusing.

//

3 hours ago, Dengars Toilet Paper said:

I would guess the second player will be unable to play the Boba fett card and thus starts normally at the players edge of the board.

3 hours ago, player2072913 said:

I think technically Boba's ship remains in reserve for the rest of the game, but this does seem to be the fairest compromise.

Here here. I think we need to be willing to make some justice-based rulings in X-Wing.

Boba's ship never being deployed is a fundamentally unjust situation, and in certain extreme cases like this, the best interpretation is to allow a way out.

An example of how things ought to be is 1e Valen Rudor vs Tactician. Both Valen's opportunity to boost or barrel roll and Tactician's stress are after attacking/defending triggers. If Valen has the first opportunity, he can barrel roll or boost out of Range 2 or Arc to avoid the stress. However, he couldn't boost into Range 2 without taking stress afterwards. If Valen has the second opportunity, he's out of luck if he's already at Range 2, but he has freedom to move wherever he wants if he didn't start at Range 2. There are advantages and disadvantages to going first or going second depending on game state, but player order is just that: it determines only order, not whether or not something is allowed to happen at all.

When something like Boba vs. Boba is interpreted deny the second player any opportunity at all, that to me is fundamentally unjust, and ought to be avoided.

It's almost got to be "if you can't deploy the Boba way, deploy the normal way". I can imagine the card itself being errata'd so that at the end of Setup you can choose either the obstacle deployment or deployment in your regular deployment zone.

But this does need an erratum.

Interestingly, if you can put Boba dead-center in the gameplay area, you effectively cut off the ENTIRE asteroid field for placement (maybe they could sneak in on a corner?)... That means you wouldn't even need to get your opponent to place rocks close... you only need to get that one rock as close to the center of the board as possible.

For added insurance, put your wingmen near the corners to cover the back end of deployment, then nudge Boba as far forward as possible (while staying centered).

Yeah, it seems like you don't even need collusion to make this happen. As long as both players have Boba, it just needs the first player to be aware of this to pretty much block the opponent, or at least force them to deploy in a disadvantageous position.

9 minutes ago, player2072913 said:

Yeah, it seems like you don't even need collusion to make this happen. As long as both players have Boba, it just needs the first player to be aware of this to pretty much block the opponent, or at least force them to deploy in a disadvantageous position.

This seems more reasonable. If you can force your opponent to deploy with Boba away from the core of his forces (say, make him deploy near your board edge), you may already be off to an advantage...

On 8/16/2018 at 3:23 AM, player2072913 said:

I think technically Boba's ship remains in reserve for the rest of the game, but this does seem to be the fairest compromise.

So, in another thread about Moralo's ability @emeraldbeacon made an interesting point regarding having a ship in reserve when the game over condition is met.

What if you are simply unable to deploy, but! those points are also untouchable. Then your win condition changes from kill everything to kill just enough because there is no way for your opponent to get the points from the Boba carrier.

For example: Player 1 and Player 2 are both flying a fat turret + missile swarm where the turret costs 110 points.

During setup, Player 1 creates the situation with no room for Player 2 to deploy his Boba and it stays in reserve. Now only 90 points of Player 2's list is on the board to be destroyed.

If Player 2 can destroy more than 90 points before losing all of their deployed ships then Player 1 will never be able to destroy more because Player 2 has 110 points untouchable in reserve!

On 8/16/2018 at 12:11 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

This seems more reasonable. If you can force your opponent to deploy with Boba away from the core of his forces (say, make him deploy near your board edge), you may already be off to an advantage...

I think this is the more problematic situation in that it is clearly RAW legal and creates a very difficult opening for Player 2 where they are required to run for it or tank until the rest of their list arrives. It still isn't insurmountable though since the Boba carrier is probably a large base it has a speed advantage, and maybe boost or Burnout SLAM available so it might be able to kite Player 1 into a trap with Player 2's remaining forces...

5 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

I think this is the more problematic situation in that it is clearly RAW legal and creates a very difficult opening for Player 2 where they are required to run for it or tank until the rest of their list arrives. It still isn't insurmountable though since the Boba carrier is probably a large base it has a speed advantage, and maybe boost or Burnout SLAM available so it might be able to kite Player 1 into a trap with Player 2's remaining forces...

"Burnout SLAM"????? What Scum side gets that?

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

"Burnout SLAM"????? What Scum side gets that?

I don't actually know if Burnout SLAM is still a thing. I'll admit to not having memorized all of the unreleased 2e cards yet (which as of this writing, is all of them).

1 minute ago, nitrobenz said:

I don't actually know if Burnout SLAM is still a thing. I'll admit to not having memorized all of the unreleased 2e cards yet (which as of this writing, is all of them).

Okay, that makes sense. The only ships I know of with SLAM are the K-Wing and the Imperial Gunboat. I'd suggest J1mBob's card reference but I suspect that you're already aware of it. The link just in case you've misplaced it: http://www.infinitearenas.com/xw2browse/#