Hey all,

I am currently working out Lists for the next Nationals in Germany and came to the conclusion, that the TIE Defender might be the best All-Rounder we can get in the game when comparing cost and performance. Now that statement may not hold true anymore, as squad synergies usually top a 133 point 7 defender + maarek squad composition. But when paired with Thrawn I would say they are the most logical choice. They can fight squad to squad and hold their own with superior hull. They can zoom the battlefield with unprecedented speed. They have very decent but unmodifyable anti squad armament. All this for 16 points. In a Thrawn List they can apply to any requirement when supported by ship AA.

Is this a true assessment or would you guys say I could find better choices.

Defenders are great, they are as you describe them, the vanilla ice cream of squadrons. They do everything well but nothing excellently. You are also correct that they are amazing with Thrawn since they can match his flexibility - They also don't mind too much if you don't support them with BCC because in most games they can make their points back on the squad fight and then what they add in anti-ship is gravy.

As you mention above, a bunch of them is overkill. I am running Maarek, Jendon, Jonus, Mauler, Dengar, Black Squadron, and 2x Generic Defenders and it works excellently. The defenders/Maarek are the heavy lifters and Mauler and Dengar are there to pick off the 1 hull left guys.

TIE Defenders are probably the best all-arounders, but they don't excel at anything. If you want a better anti-fighter craft, rolling 3 blues to scare aces and with a re-roll and counter, TIE Interceptors are the best at killing other squadrons (In spite of the TIE/D's two black dice having a better hit chance). TIE/Ds work in attacking generics, where scatter isn't a concern with them.

The better bomber is the Firespray, with rogue and throwing two dice. TIE bombers are also significantly cheaper., with the same hull, and comperable speed.

Against the cheaper-by-3 X-Wing the TIE/D is significantly faster, but loses out on attacking aces and has a lower ship-damage cap for sake of more consistency.

I wouldn't call it the best fighter, but if you're dealing with a lot of generics I'd say they're a good pick.

I've always liked TIE Defenders w/ Sloane. It's a nice feeling when rolling anti-ship dice, you are guaranteed to do something . Because, yeah, back in the before-FAQ days, I've had an entire wing of 6 TIE Bomber squadrons with double-rerolls from two BCCs (as noted, pre-FAQ) roll nothing but 100% blanks . 18 dice rolled, all blanks.

Sure it was a one-off, years ago, but... never going to happen with TIE Defenders supported by Sloane !

The main problem with Defenders nowadays is their efficiency against ships is worse than X-Wings for their cost, and X-Wings are mediocre against ships despite the Bomber keyword. They benefit less from Bomber Command Center than X-Wings as well because the blue die needs it less and can't roll a double (0.94 average damage on a 16 point Defender versus 1.03 average damage from a 13 point X-Wing).

That said, they can do just fine in a heavier squad fleet provided you've got some squads that can go after ships when/if you win the squad mini-game (even if it's just Maarek and Jendon, but watch out for assassination runs on Maarek). Sprinkling in some dedicated squad hate like Mauler or Ciena wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

Every now and then I consider some kind of Imperial fleet with a good mix of Defenders and TIE Bombers with Bomber Command Center and Ruthless Strategists, but I've never really found a build for that I really liked.

The generic Defender is certainly a good all-rounder. But Maarek is easily one of the best squads in the game, period.

Defenders are quite good at everything: bombing, speed, resilience, dogfighting etc.

This is also the reason they are my least favourite squadron.

X-Wings used to suffer from this problem in wave 1. Good, not great and expensive. But at least X-Wings have escort and once new characters appeared in later waves that were worth protecting X-Wings became popular. TIE-Ds don't have a reason to take them other than their jack of all trades stats but high price.

I love flying Defenders even though they get brutalized by Aces.

I also love the aesthetic of tie Phantoms but they are terrible in Armada and that still makes me sad, no matter how hard I try to make them work.

5 hours ago, Thraug said:

I love flying Defenders even though they get brutalized by Aces.

I also love the aesthetic of tie Phantoms but they are terrible in Armada and that still makes me sad, no matter how hard I try to make them work.

I’ve been tinkering with a Phantom build. But never tried it yet. On face value it seems like a lot of the time you want to stay engaged with enemy fighters to tie them up so they can’t engage your bombers or bomb themselves. Disengagement, while a neat ability seems unhelpful in a lot of situations.

6 hours ago, xanderf said:

I've always liked TIE Defenders w/ Sloane. It's a nice feeling when rolling anti-ship dice, you are guaranteed to do something . Because, yeah, back in the before-FAQ days, I've had an entire wing of 6 TIE Bomber squadrons with double-rerolls from two BCCs (as noted, pre-FAQ) roll nothing but 100% blanks . 18 dice rolled, all blanks.

Sure it was a one-off, years ago, but... never going to happen with TIE Defenders supported by Sloane !

This is heressy.

Double post

No this isn't the legends TIE Defender which was a God tier fighter capable of winning battles single handedly.

7 hours ago, Thraug said:

I love flying Defenders even though they get brutalized by Aces.

I also love the aesthetic of tie Phantoms but they are terrible in Armada and that still makes me sad, no matter how hard I try to make them work.

They are amazing with Sloane

It's hard to make generic Defenders cost effective.

Sixteen points is scatter ace level expensive, but the Defenders completely lack the durability of a squadron with scatter/brace.

The blue bomber die is horribly weak for a squadron costing 16 points. Just horrible.

Anti-squad is more than good, slightly better against generics, slightly weaker against aces. But again, for 16 points it's not good.

So you're left with a bunch of fast, somewhat durable, but overpriced squadrons.

44 minutes ago, chr335 said:

They are amazing with Sloane

Ah, poor Phantoms. Sloane definitely makes them potentially amazing, but I still think the dice are too unreliable. Plus speaking of Sloane, I think she suddenly makes generic Defenders a really good option.

The only thing that makes a TIE Defnder better vs ships than a TIE Fighter is its hull, which lets you be more careless about parking in multiple flak arcs.

Having a bomber keyword doesn’t make you a good bomber!

YV-666's.....

Has anyone play tested with Phantoms and Defenders having Swarm in addition to their other key words? Is it broken?

I can see defenders being that way, but Phantoms doesn't seem like it would be with their cost being 14 points.

Phantoms have a niche use with Sloane as they do some work against ships. Cloak lets them bypass a squad screen as long as you have other squads engaged with said screen .

Defenders are Xwings+, but without all the goodies Rebels get to buff Xwings.

8 hours ago, Church14 said:

Defenders are Xwings+, but without all the goodies Rebels get to buff Xwings.

I think this is the Crux of it. We have amazing buffs for our Swarm squadrons, but none of the really juicy stuff like Toryn Farr, Gallant Haven, Jan, etc that works on all of our squadrons. If we did Defenders would be pretty well uncontested (also MAYBE black dice bombers? Please?)