Much as others might be, I am looking at options for a Clone Wars campaign. As a backdrop, I was looking at a Separatist super weapon. In canon, they start drawing up the plans for the Death Star but they don't really get anywhere with it until the wars are over. I was looking at other options since I don't care for the canon all that much.

I was flipping through my Dark Empire Sourcebook and the World Devastator jumped out at me as something the Seps would have really gotten behind. In effect, it's a giant droid that uses tractor beams to pull matter (from a planet's surface, or chunks off of capital ships) into its molecular furnace maw. Then it uses those materials to feed internal factories that expand itself and produce war material (droid-controlled fighters and other vehicles).

The droid angle obviously fits the Seps, and this weapon looks like something that evolves from a massive mining apparatus, so again a good tie-in to the Seps. The ability to make a flotilla of these things that can destroy targets while replenishing droid forces seems like an even better fit for the aims of the Droid Army than the Death Star.

Anyway, that's just an idea I had for those that don't care about sticking strictly to canon.

While I don't like Dark Empire, I did like the superweapon concepts.

World Devastators are great for being as threatening as a Death Star while still being downscaled enough to feel like something that the Empire could just build in secret, on the side. (And as a CIS weapon... yeah, very very fitting.)

The Galaxy Gun had sort of the opposite issue. It's scale was too big so it did feel like the superweapon of the week, but the concept of a cannon that could drop a bomb anywhere in the galaxy was something that I felt was perfect for an RPG campaign. Downscale that baby so it can knock out a building or base instead of a planet and you've got a great campaign superweapon for the players to hunt down and destroy.

17 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

While I don't like Dark Empire, I did like the superweapon concepts.

World Devastators are great for being as threatening as a Death Star while still being downscaled enough to feel like something that the Empire could just build in secret, on the side. (And as a CIS weapon... yeah, very very fitting.)

The Galaxy Gun had sort of the opposite issue. It's scale was too big so it did feel like the superweapon of the week, but the concept of a cannon that could drop a bomb anywhere in the galaxy was something that I felt was perfect for an RPG campaign. Downscale that baby so it can knock out a building or base instead of a planet and you've got a great campaign superweapon for the players to hunt down and destroy.

I wasn't much of a fan of the Galaxy Gun, neither in Dark Empire , nor in The Force Awakens , where Starkiller Base is really just the Galaxy Gun with a planet wrapped around it and a terrible ammo collection process.

Good idea. I was always a fan of the World Devastator, and I like you're reasoning for including them. Unfortunately, my only exposure to them was in the rogue squadron game.

The CIS also had the mega-ion cannon they armed the Malevolence with, if you are looking for something more canonical.

3 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

Good idea. I was always a fan of the World Devastator, and I like you're reasoning for including them. Unfortunately, my only exposure to them was in the rogue squadron game.

The CIS also had the mega-ion cannon they armed the Malevolence with, if you are looking for something more canonical.

Oddly enough, that seems more fitting for a Republic super weapon to bombard battlefields to clear out masses of droids. Still, it's not a bad super weapon, but the scale (very decisive in a capital squadron fight, but not so much on bigger battles) is a bit low for what I'm looking to do.

14 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I wasn't much of a fan of the Galaxy Gun, neither in Dark Empire , nor in The Force Awakens , where Starkiller Base is really just the Galaxy Gun with a planet wrapped around it and a terrible ammo collection process.

Agreed, Galaxy gun at full scale was as lame and derivative as Starkiller base. However, scale it down. Instead of dropping a magic space pixie dust bomb from orbit and nuking a planet, instead have it carry a nice big proton warhead and have it exit hyperspace just a few miles above the target. It'd essentially be like an accurate, galaxy-reaching V-2 rocket, which is much more in theme.

I liked the World Devastators, too! But I mostly knew about them from the Rogue Squadron level on the N64.

They're a good choice because of the scale, since eliminating them could be the culmination of any number of campaigns. A Jedi strike force? Makes sense. How about clone commandos? Seems like the kind of thing they'd get called up for. A ragtag bunch of ARC troopers? Why not?

I also support downsizing the Galaxy Gun. Maybe it's destructive enough to take out a city. Bonus points if the PCs are called upon to actually recover it for the Republic, rather than just destroy it.

Yall do realize that a downsized Galaxy Gun is called a Turbolaser on a hyper capable starship? Well technically a bunch of turbolasers, but an ISD isnt exactly short on guns.

Or if you really want to go back to Clone Wars times, just stuff a Trade Federation battleship with droid fighters each carrying a bomb and you have several thousand self guiding bombs.

Tho I do agree that the World Devastators would be a very Separatist sort of weapon.

The Galaxy Gun fires a self-guided projectile (about the size of a light freighter, IIRC) that is armored, shielded, and armed with significant point-defense weaponry. It's warhead is a matter/energy conversion warhead that can be tailored to blow up anything from a base to an entire planet.

Compared to Starkiller Base, the Galaxy Gun had a slower projectile (0.75 hyperdrive vs. instantaneous) but had the advantage that it didn't instantly broadcast its firing position across the galaxy in real-time. Oh, and it didn't require eating stars to power itself. And it wasn't based on a stupid "mobile planet" that still maintained an environment that supported human life.

1 hour ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

I liked the World Devastators, too! But I mostly knew about them from the Rogue Squadron level on the N64.

They're a good choice because of the scale, since eliminating them could be the culmination of any number of campaigns. A Jedi strike force? Makes sense. How about clone commandos? Seems like the kind of thing they'd get called up for. A ragtag bunch of ARC troopers? Why not?

I also support downsizing the Galaxy Gun. Maybe it's destructive enough to take out a city. Bonus points if the PCs are called upon to actually recover it for the Republic, rather than just destroy it.

The Rogue Squadron depictions of World Devastators were deliberately weakened from the way they are portrayed in Dark Empire . In Dark Empire , they are very, very well armored Sil 10 targets with really strong shields making them nearly impervious to conventional attacks. That would probably require somewhere around 15 Armor and a Defense of 4/4/4/4 to represent in this system along with Massive 4 and lots of HTT & SST.

Or have them think of a superweapon:

Hyperspace bombs, the Sep leadership tries to convince the Republic they can blow up anything from anywhere. But in reality at the end of the campaign it is revealed that they are in fact using cloaking technology to launch ordinary bombs with precise timing using a Dark Jedi.

(Courtesy of Grand Admiral Thrawn)

So the PC get their hands on the cloaking technology (deliver it to Chancelllor Palpatine - evil laugh - and deal with a dark jedi at the end to resolve the conflict

8 hours ago, kaosoe said:

The CIS also had the mega-ion cannon they armed the Malevolence with, if you are looking for something more canonical.

I used a smaller version of this in our campaign, where Hondo found it on a prototype ship, and the players helped him steal it. Of course he then tested it on the players ship!

think I gave it something like Dam 25, blast 16, slow firing, range medium, blast radius short, ion damage. Meant a direct hit on player ship would overwhelm their strain, but blast would just get close, and a whole squad of fighters could be taken out at once.

12 hours ago, korjik said:

Yall do realize that a downsized Galaxy Gun is called a Turbolaser on a hyper capable starship? Well technically a bunch of turbolasers, but an ISD isnt exactly short on guns.

Or if you really want to go back to Clone Wars times, just stuff a Trade Federation battleship with droid fighters each carrying a bomb and you have several thousand self guiding bombs.

Oh ye of little vision...

Warship:

You're out on patrol when the base alarm goes off, up in the night sky, a new star has appeared. You're racing back to the base when a transport swings in, the crew chief leaning out of the hatch shouting for you to get aboard; an evacuation has been ordered. Up above the star have taking shape of the triangular hull of a star destroyer. Green bolts start to rain down from the ship, seemingly taking forever to reach the ground. When they do, fire lances up dozens of meters in the air. Craft of all sizes dart and weave away from your base as secondary explosions rock the ground beneath you.

Galaxy Gun:

You're out on patrol when there is suddenly a massive boom. You look up just in time to see a large smokey fireball rocket down, moving thousands of feet through the atmosphere in seconds. It strikes the ground and there's a flash of light so bright, for a split second night becomes day, followed by a ground shaking explosion that knocks you off your feet. When you come to, your base is gone, replaced by a flaming crater. "What was that? A meteorite? How'd the scanners miss that?" one of your squadmates asks in disbelief. You wonder too, before you notice hanging above the crater is a faint purple glow indicating proton radiation... you've been attacked."

See? totally different. One is merely the start of a campaign or adventure. The other is not just the start, but the first appearance of a key McGuffin.

Now, like I said, I never liked the scale of the galaxy gun, which shot missiles the size of capital starships. (seriously, EU writers seemed unhealthily concerned about making sure they have the biggest of something, and Dark Empire was absolutely a prime offender) But as my above example illustrates, a smaller, more targeted, conventional version of the same weapon can actually be pretty cool and better for the story.

5 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Oh ye of little vision...

Warship:

You're out on patrol when the base alarm goes off, up in the night sky, a new star has appeared. You're racing back to the base when a transport swings in, the crew chief leaning out of the hatch shouting for you to get aboard; an evacuation has been ordered. Up above the star have taking shape of the triangular hull of a star destroyer. Green bolts start to rain down from the ship, seemingly taking forever to reach the ground. When they do, fire lances up dozens of meters in the air. Craft of all sizes dart and weave away from your base as secondary explosions rock the ground beneath you.

Galaxy Gun:

You're out on patrol when there is suddenly a massive boom. You look up just in time to see a large smokey fireball rocket down, moving thousands of feet through the atmosphere in seconds. It strikes the ground and there's a flash of light so bright, for a split second night becomes day, followed by a ground shaking explosion that knocks you off your feet. When you come to, your base is gone, replaced by a flaming crater. "What was that? A meteorite? How'd the scanners miss that?" one of your squadmates asks in disbelief. You wonder too, before you notice hanging above the crater is a faint purple glow indicating proton radiation... you've been attacked."

See? totally different. One is merely the start of a campaign or adventure. The other is not just the start, but the first appearance of a key McGuffin.

Now, like I said, I never liked the scale of the galaxy gun, which shot missiles the size of capital starships. (seriously, EU writers seemed unhealthily concerned about making sure they have the biggest of something, and Dark Empire was absolutely a prime offender) But as my above example illustrates, a smaller, more targeted, conventional version of the same weapon can actually be pretty cool and better for the story.

You do realize that what I was saying is that an ISD is the smaller more targetted conventional version? Also one that doesnt lead to the next bigger Mcguffin?

I dont find the 'next bigger gun' to be the slightest bit interesting, and really was the reason I didnt read any EU novels.

13 minutes ago, korjik said:

I dont find the 'next bigger gun' to be the slightest bit interesting, and really was the reason I didnt read any EU novels.

So how about TFA and TLJ? They're no better.

1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

So how about TFA and TLJ? They're no better.

You would be correct, if I am being nice.

If I am not being nice, I would say that the superweapons in those movies were...well all you would see here is a long string of asterixes. The TL;DR would be I am not looking forward to ep 9. I will go see it, but I already have very low expectations.

Which actually makes me kinda surprised that I like your idea of using the World Devastators as a Separatist weapon. I would definitely tone them down from Dark Empire superweapon levels. Make them more like a cruiser on the ground that eats everything around it. A cruiser sized Von Neumann Berserker.

Actually, a Separatist von Neumann Beserker that went out of control could be interesting.

I think I'm going to have to steal the World Devastator idea for my Clone Wars campaign that starts on Monday.

For thematics, my version of the World Devastator will be a heavily modified ore crawler from Star Wars Rebels (which itself was based off of the World Devastator). A single one in my game won't exactly be a planet-ending threat, but each individual modified ore crawler will be equipped with the manufacturing supplies for one type of droid or vehicle. So put five or six on a planet, and they'll build up a small occupation force while using up the world's resources.

I'm not sure exactly what stats I'll give them yet, but probably Sil 5, with the ability to produce 4 B1 Battle Droids every few turns, 2 B2 Super Battle Droids every few turns, or 2 STAPs every few turns.

3 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

I think I'm going to have to steal the World Devastator idea for my Clone Wars campaign that starts on Monday.

For thematics, my version of the World Devastator will be a heavily modified ore crawler from Star Wars Rebels (which itself was based off of the World Devastator). A single one in my game won't exactly be a planet-ending threat, but each individual modified ore crawler will be equipped with the manufacturing supplies for one type of droid or vehicle. So put five or six on a planet, and they'll build up a small occupation force while using up the world's resources.

I'm not sure exactly what stats I'll give them yet, but probably Sil 5, with the ability to produce 4 B1 Battle Droids every few turns, 2 B2 Super Battle Droids every few turns, or 2 STAPs every few turns.

The Ore Crawler from Rebels was itself a scaled down repurposing of the design of the World Devastators.

14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The Ore Crawler from Rebels was itself a scaled down repurposing of the design of the World Devastators.

Are you talking in-universe or out? In-universe, the World Devastators were not conceived until the Death Star II began construction.

5 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Are you talking in-universe or out? In-universe, the World Devastators were not conceived until the Death Star II began construction.

Out of universe.

I kinda feel I addressed that when I mentioned the ore crawlers being based off of the World Devastators. I suppose I could have been more specific and mentioned that the only similarities were their appearance and the ability to strip a world of raw resources, but that's beside the point.

For the purposes of my game, a 'world devastator' will be a repurposed ore crawler. A handful of my players have read Dark Empire and played Rogue Squadron, so they'll recognize the World Devastator for what it is. Meanwhile, a different subset of my players has watched Rebels (with only one player overlapping there), and they'll recognize it as an ore crawler. Either way, I'll be getting plenty of good reactions from my players if I bring this thing in.

Separatists as bad guys are overused...

Make a Republic superweapon.

(It's not unprecedented, unless you believe this was an accident: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destruction_of_Pammant )

12 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Separatists as bad guys are overused...

Make a Republic superweapon.

(It's not unprecedented, unless you believe this was an accident: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destruction_of_Pammant )

Isn't the Death Star already the Republic's superweapon? It's not online during the war, but it is theirs after a point. There's also that huge ion-proton bomb thing that only worked on droids from the animated series.

Regardless, I think it'd be very difficult to come up with one that isn't just a secret pet project of Palpatine and his inner circle. The TCW series seemed to establish that most atrocities during the war seemingly made under the Republic's banner were set in motion by some plot of Sheev's being carried out by the CIS or his orders directly. After all, the CIS has to take the blame for this stuff so the future humanocentric policies of the Empire can be more easily justified, the Separatist loyalists purged, and their planets stripped of resources for the peacetime naval build-up. Making big scary superweapons for the Republic feels like it'd run in the face of the chancellor's goals unless kept secret, and its hard to keep something in use secret from the Jedi, I imagine.

Oversized ion weapon variations feel like they'd be the extent the Republic would be willing to go, as far as keeping in character for their faction goes.

Pammant is a cool site to use for shipbuilding! My current group of players have all managed to procure radiation suits, funding to secretly renovate a portion of the long derelict shipyards, and enough droid workers to begin constructing their own battlecruiser there over the course of what's going to be a lot of very financially tight sessions. Hopefully they don't get too mad at the shipwright PC when they inevitably have trouble paying them back for all this.

9 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Separatists as bad guys are overused...

Make a Republic superweapon.

(It's not unprecedented, unless you believe this was an accident: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destruction_of_Pammant )

I don't know about super weapons, but I would certainly highlight the brutality of the Clones when they are deployed against non-droid Separatist forces. IMSW, the Clones were created to be killers; they have no experience in taking prisoners, and the Jedi can't be everywhere.