I really don't want the LucreHulk for the Rebellion and here's why.

The imagery of that ship is pretty well seeped into the public conscious and it's association is with the Trade Federation. You get away with something like the Assault Frigate because it's not that well known and it's basic shape feels similar to what we know as Rebel Ships.

Besides if they invest into making a model for the LucreHulk they really should be developing Clone Wars ships and factions in general.

10 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

It's the largest Canon ship the Rebels possess, and in Legends as well. It's a no brainer for FFG to add it to the game as the Clone Wars is getting a new season, and it's a ship that could be packaged with Canon/Legends titles to please new and old fans.

At the risk of irritating a TIE Advanced pilot, I present my take on what the stats might be. I think the abysmal Nav Chart and lack of a Defensive Retrofit slot, as well as the high cost of the Lucrehulk will balance out it's strengths. I also thought the arcs are reasonable since it can only match an Imperial II's firepower by double arcing.

Truth be told I just want to gauge the interest here on the Lucrehulk possibly being the Rebel's next ship.

I'm going to hit your design with my critic stick!

You have a fantastic carrier here. No other ship in the game I think can go up to fighter 7 besides the Super Star Destroyer. Expanded Hangars with a token will get this Lucrehulk there. I've heard complaints from the Rebels about not having a good carrier with a weapons team slot... Even the MC75 isn't perfect. Your lucrehulk would allow 7 fighters to have flight controller buffs, on top of the other rebel bonuses and advantages, to probably smash a lot of stuff in its way. I'm not as practiced in Rebel fighter strategies as I probably should to make these judgement calls, but being on the receiving end so many times, I caution giving away too many bonuses to Rebel fighters. You don't want to create a board state where all people bring is a Lucrehulk, a cadre of aces, one flotilla with bomber command center and toryn farr, and one hammerhead in a corner for their aces.

The only other ship that's essentially all-fighter-no-ship is the Quasar, which dies the moment it's under the guns of anything with more than four dice in a battery. That is how it balances out fantastic squadron support with what it is, and the cost it brings.

Now, what is your Lucrehulk paying for this fantastic leverage?

Cost is one thing... this is the most expensive non-SSD on the table (judging this design independently of others). But you may find no amount of up-costing might cover the benefits being offered here... I think that's something to be determined through repeated play. I applaud up-costing as a precaution though, but I would also advise more "organic" ways to make it vulnerable and pay for the advantages it gives fighters.

In terms of protection this thing is as resilient as a Liberty. Two braces means it has a good chance of never being pressured to cut damage in half- which is the common way of elliminating damage. Since I don't think you rebels need a particular officer for this carrier (Adar would be fantastic, but pricey) DCO with this token setup makes the ship really resilient. Resilient enough to allow it's fighters to clear the field through repeated fighter commands. The first place I'd go to nerf this ship is in the defense token setup- like eliminating redirect or making the shields eggshells (no higher than 3), or following the typical Rebel pattern of making the superstructure weaker than its Imperial counterparts. Personally I'd go for the shield option, figuring that Clone-wars era shields are weaker. Maybe also kicking in engineering would do good too- I figure the Nemodians would rather abandon their ships than try to repair them.

Your battery is adequate for what I'd expect on the ship, but I think you should decide on turbolasers or ions. Maybe an either/or for variants. Your ship is already a fantastic carrier, giving other options to the ship is a bit overkill. After all, even without the expanded hangar upgrade you're looking at a Fighter 5 large strike ship armed with D-Caps, HIEs, and Quad Turbolaser cannons. That's 5 dice at long range that does damage to the 3 facing arcs you strike... following a fighter rush.

A fleet command is an interesting standout addition and a nice alternative to fielding a Pelta. This may make the pelta obsolite, but I'd keep it if for no other reason than fan vanity of making a design interesting.

In short, rip out the gun upgrades, de-power the shields, and give the operating player some hard decisions when it comes to defending. Then this could be good for plopping on a table and trying.

31 minutes ago, Shadow345 said:

I really don't want the LucreHulk for the Rebellion and here's why.

The imagery of that ship is pretty well seeped into the public conscious and it's association is with the Trade Federation. You get away with something like the Assault Frigate because it's not that well known and it's basic shape feels similar to what we know as Rebel Ships.

Besides if they invest into making a model for the LucreHulk they really should be developing Clone Wars ships and factions in general.

I'd rather they save time by not developing a new faction and instead present clone-wars era ships in factions that already exist, so those ships can be flown in already existing fleets. Turnaround time for new ships is already what, half a year? For two ships? Unless you're happy with a one-ship faction for a long time, it needs to be part of the Rebellion.

I have no such reservations about the Lucrehulk appearing as a Rebellion craft. I am not so attached to it that it has to be CIS. In fact, I'd like it more if the CIS ships were part of the Rebellion, because then I'd have an excuse for some exciting custom livery instead of feeling constrained by CIS color schemes.

10 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Here is my suggestion:



and some others:

Hey. I'm not really going to comment on the stats, but I'd make the following suggestion / feedback (About the OP suggestion)

1 - I like the idea of having something that's "well round up", with similar attack pools and shielding all around.

2 - It's a good ship, but not a good Huge ship. I'd add a black dice to each side (and a few points for good measure). And a 3rd brace. So it's really a hull tank instead of a shield tank.

3 - I like it having a nice 90° arc centered. Being a huge, I would suggested imagining it (as KDY doesn't allow you to create trully original things, such as the SSD double base) as 2 large base side by side, with the arc centered. So it's really a "round" thing that's roughly as dangerous from all side.

Is it a good pick for Rebel's huge ship? Who cares, we got some news for Armada, and now we can be dreaming about new stuff. And that's cool enough.

4 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I'm going to hit your design with my critic stick!

You have a fantastic carrier here. No other ship in the game I think can go up to fighter 7 besides the Super Star Destroyer. Expanded Hangars with a token will get this Lucrehulk there. I've heard complaints from the Rebels about not having a good carrier with a weapons team slot... Even the MC75 isn't perfect. Your lucrehulk would allow 7 fighters to have flight controller buffs, on top of the other rebel bonuses and advantages, to probably smash a lot of stuff in its way. I'm not as practiced in Rebel fighter strategies as I probably should to make these judgement calls, but being on the receiving end so many times, I caution giving away too many bonuses to Rebel fighters. You don't want to create a board state where all people bring is a Lucrehulk, a cadre of aces, one flotilla with bomber command center and toryn farr, and one hammerhead in a corner for their aces.

The only other ship that's essentially all-fighter-no-ship is the Quasar, which dies the moment it's under the guns of anything with more than four dice in a battery. That is how it balances out fantastic squadron support with what it is, and the cost it brings.

Now, what is your Lucrehulk paying for this fantastic leverage?

Cost is one thing... this is the most expensive non-SSD on the table (judging this design independently of others). But you may find no amount of up-costing might cover the benefits being offered here... I think that's something to be determined through repeated play. I applaud up-costing as a precaution though, but I would also advise more "organic" ways to make it vulnerable and pay for the advantages it gives fighters.

In terms of protection this thing is as resilient as a Liberty. Two braces means it has a good chance of never being pressured to cut damage in half- which is the common way of elliminating damage. Since I don't think you rebels need a particular officer for this carrier (Adar would be fantastic, but pricey) DCO with this token setup makes the ship really resilient. Resilient enough to allow it's fighters to clear the field through repeated fighter commands. The first place I'd go to nerf this ship is in the defense token setup- like eliminating redirect or making the shields eggshells (no higher than 3), or following the typical Rebel pattern of making the superstructure weaker than its Imperial counterparts. Personally I'd go for the shield option, figuring that Clone-wars era shields are weaker. Maybe also kicking in engineering would do good too- I figure the Nemodians would rather abandon their ships than try to repair them.

Your battery is adequate for what I'd expect on the ship, but I think you should decide on turbolasers or ions. Maybe an either/or for variants. Your ship is already a fantastic carrier, giving other options to the ship is a bit overkill. After all, even without the expanded hangar upgrade you're looking at a Fighter 5 large strike ship armed with D-Caps, HIEs, and Quad Turbolaser cannons. That's 5 dice at long range that does damage to the 3 facing arcs you strike... following a fighter rush.

A fleet command is an interesting standout addition and a nice alternative to fielding a Pelta. This may make the pelta obsolite, but I'd keep it if for no other reason than fan vanity of making a design interesting.

In short, rip out the gun upgrades, de-power the shields, and give the operating player some hard decisions when it comes to defending. Then this could be good for plopping on a table and trying.

You can command at to 7 squadrons that's true, but the plodding pace I think means the player would to be defensive rather offensive otherwise his expensive squadrons will get out of command range.

Taking this ship would be a large commitment as just Rieekan, Flight Controllers, and Expanded Hanger Bay would be 186pts, over half of the list could be upgrades on the Lucrehulk. I want to try it as is against my cousin if he agrees later today.

Btw you were right about the Venator, and I redid it's stats.

5 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I'd rather they save time by not developing a new faction and instead present clone-wars era ships in factions that already exist, so those ships can be flown in already existing fleets. Turnaround time for new ships is already what, half a year? For two ships? Unless you're happy with a one-ship faction for a long time, it needs to be part of the Rebellion.

I have no such reservations about the Lucrehulk appearing as a Rebellion craft. I am not so attached to it that it has to be CIS. In fact, I'd like it more if the CIS ships were part of the Rebellion, because then I'd have an excuse for some exciting custom livery instead of feeling constrained by CIS color schemes.

I think Norsehound alludes to an interesting point here that might require some consideration. Given that we have yet to see a dual-faction ship yet (which so far I think that the Phoenix Nest Quasar has been the best option that is currently in the game) and the relatively obscurity of the Lucrehulk being used by the Rebels, I think that the inclusion of this specific ship requires a choice to be made. If it is included as a Rebels ship, it can be reasonably accessed that we are not going to see Clone Wars factions, because this ship is primarily associated with the CIS (Trade Federation) as featured in the PT. So if it came down to a choice, would people prefer this ship as part of the Rebels faction or wait in hopes that Clone Wars factions will be introduced? I would prefer neither (would like SW: CW as a separate game), but if I had to decide, it would certainly be the latter. I would be willing to guess that most people would choose Clone Wars factions as well.

1 hour ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I think Norsehound alludes to an interesting point here that might require some consideration. Given that we have yet to see a dual-faction ship yet (which so far I think that the Phoenix Nest Quasar has been the best option that is currently in the game) and the relatively obscurity of the Lucrehulk being used by the Rebels, I think that the inclusion of this specific ship requires a choice to be made. If it is included as a Rebels ship, it can be reasonably accessed that we are not going to see Clone Wars factions, because this ship is primarily associated with the CIS (Trade Federation) as featured in the PT. So if it came down to a choice, would people prefer this ship as part of the Rebels faction or wait in hopes that Clone Wars factions will be introduced? I would prefer neither (would like SW: CW as a separate game), but if I had to decide, it would certainly be the latter. I would be willing to guess that most people would choose Clone Wars factions as well.

The logic doesn't quite follow FFG production history. Including Clone Wars tech now doesn't preclude the faction from appearing later. See the ARC170 in X-Wing. The we already have the Arquittens on the Imperial side. I would actually posit that the more clone wars ships we get that it would make the Clone Wars factions more likely as they'll run dry on releases and then bam!... new cardboard and upgrade cards for a new release.

(Just to be clear, it's obscure but almost all of the clone wars era ships have been used by the Rebels or Imps in canon. Leia commanded a Providence class ship as well as Hera commanded a Lucrehulk.)

7 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

The logic doesn't quite follow FFG production history. Including Clone Wars tech now doesn't preclude the faction from appearing later. See the ARC170 in X-Wing. The we already have the Arquittens on the Imperial side. I would actually posit that the more clone wars ships we get that it would make the Clone Wars factions more likely as they'll run dry on releases and then bam!... new cardboard and upgrade cards for a new release.

(Just to be clear, it's obscure but almost all of the clone wars era ships have been used by the Rebels or Imps in canon. Leia commanded a Providence class ship as well as Hera commanded a Lucrehulk.)

I wouldn’t particularly use X-Wing as support for what they might do in Armada, as in 1.0 they had Republic (ARC-170), Rebels (T-65 X-Wing), and Resistance (T-70) ships all in one faction. Use of the Arquitens or the Pelta in Rebels, while they are ships from the Clone Wars, have been seen on screen used by the Rebels, whereas the Lucrehulk has not. While the new cardboard is obviously possible, I’m looking at likelihood as opposed to possibility. Since they haven’t done it before to make ships dual-faction (see Quasar reference above), it is just a hope that they do it in the future as opposed to being probable.

14 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

I think slapping the Lucrehulk on a large base is a better option considering the size of the SSD base.

Consider if "Huge Bases" are variable in shape, to fit the ship, instead of 2 large bases length wise like the SSD, place 2 large bases side by side. Double the front and back arcs, instead of the sides.

25 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

Since they haven’t done it before to make ships dual-faction (see Quasar reference above), it is just a hope that they do it in the future as opposed to being probable.

FFG generally doesn't make a ship dual faction at first (Havok might be the only exception at release that I can think of). They released the Y-Wing, Z95s, and HWK for the Rebels first and then made them cross faction. Same thing happened for the Tie. They'll probably now make the ARC cross faction as well. I only bring this up as basically history just makes it more likely that a new faction could come in time. At this point there is probably more evidence based on FFG history that they'll bring in more factions. Lack of content now doesn't preclude nor make it any less probable.

2 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

FFG generally doesn't make a ship dual faction at first (Havok might be the only exception at release that I can think of). They released the Y-Wing, Z95s, and HWK for the Rebels first and then made them cross faction. Same thing happened for the Tie. They'll probably now make the ARC cross faction as well. I only bring this up as basically history just makes it more likely that a new faction could come in time. At this point there is probably more evidence based on FFG history that they'll bring in more factions. Lack of content now doesn't preclude nor make it any less probable.

I completely agree with you... for X-Wing. But we are discussing Armada here. And as I stated before, I would not use the X-Wing past as support for the Armada future. And as much as you keep bringing it up for X-Wing, we still have not had one dual-faction ship or squadron yet in Armada.

I’d personally love to see the Acclamator in the imperial faction, as well as Republic.

54 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I completely agree with you... for X-Wing. But we are discussing Armada here. And as I stated before, I would not use the X-Wing past as support for the Armada future. And as much as you keep bringing it up for X-Wing, we still have not had one dual-faction ship or squadron yet in Armada.

That’s the evidence we have all provided by the same actor. The lack of a faction (or cross faction/clone wars) ships-now does not preclude their release in the future. In the most cynical sense ffg has proven they do t care about scale (ssd), using ships within screen time (vsd, af2 - not even counting obscure ships in xwing like the kimoglia) and already a willing to cross eras. Why would ffg have one rule for armada and another for the rest. The real question is there really any reason why they can’t ? ? I can’t think of any reason why not and that’s awesome.

Earlier I was writing a whole post on the merits of dual faction clone wars ships to supplement current factions and also create new ones.

Then I realized one fundamental problem.

Paint application.

Clone Wars era ships are colorful in a way that Imperial and Rebel color schemes wouldn't satisfy. Likewise Republic color schemes wouldn't work for the Empire and the separatist color scheme would be to bright and clean for salvaged ships.

FFG has a few options on how to do this.

1) Release them dual faction but paint them GCW colors.

2) Release them as Clone Wars faction ships, then release a second version of a few such as the Venator and Acclamator for GCW with appropriate Imperial colors.

3) Only supplement current factions with Clone Wars era ships as they have done.

4) Just introduce two new factions like X-Wing did with the First Order and Resistance.

21 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

That’s the evidence we have all provided by the same actor. The lack of a faction (or cross faction/clone wars) ships-now does not preclude their release in the future. In the most cynical sense ffg has proven they do t care about scale (ssd), using ships within screen time (vsd, af2 - not even counting obscure ships in xwing like the kimoglia) and already a willing to cross eras. Why would ffg have one rule for armada and another for the rest. The real question is there really any reason why they can’t ? ? I can’t think of any reason why not and that’s awesome.

Because at lease in one instance - VSD/AF - it was done pre to the Disney Canonucity changeover - it wasn’t an issue then, but it Ys potentially one now.

So the Rebels fielded ONE Lucrehulk and now it should get its own expansion? Why not release the Errant Venture instead?

5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Because at lease in one instance - VSD/AF - it was done pre to the Disney Canonucity changeover - it wasn’t an issue then, but it Ys potentially one now.

Did the mc30 come after the merger? (Serious question)

6 minutes ago, Norell said:

So the Rebels fielded ONE Lucrehulk and now it should get its own expansion? Why not release the Errant Venture instead?

Errant Venture doesn’t exist (and it breaks my heart) in canon.

14 minutes ago, Norell said:

So the Rebels fielded ONE Lucrehulk and now it should get its own expansion? Why not release the Errant Venture instead?

Technically the rebels have fielded a few in the new canon.

Such as in Tarkin, a rebel group attacks with one I believe. Then you have the new comic with Hera.

Come on. The Galactic Civil War was far larger in scope then what the movies show. There's other cells, battles, and we only ever see portions of it.

We know the rebels utilize whatever they can and the Trade Federation probably built tens of thousands of Lucrehulks, at least thouands. There's no way the rebels wouldnt utilize them.

10 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Technically the rebels have fielded a few in the new canon.

Such as in Tarkin, a rebel group attacks with one I believe. Then you have the new comic with Hera.

Come on. The Galactic Civil War was far larger in scope then what the movies show. There's other cells, battles, and we only ever see portions of it.

We know the rebels utilize whatever they can and the Trade Federation probably built tens of thousands of Lucrehulks, at least thouands. There's no way the rebels wouldnt utilize them.

The ship in Tarkin was a virago, a cluster of ship modules effectky bolted together as a unique vessel.

it contained part of a droid control ship, but it was not itself, anywhere near a lucrehubk.

Most if it was a Providence.

40 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Did the mc30 come after the merger? (Serious question)

No. The MC30 was in Empire at War.

17 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The ship in Tarkin was a virago, a cluster of ship modules effectky bolted together as a unique vessel.

it contained part of a droid control ship, but it was not itself, anywhere near a lucrehubk.

Most if it was a Providence.

Point being if they went through that amount of trouble they'd definitely use a lucrehulk if they had access to one.

Likely hood is they had access to some.

4 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

No. The MC30 was in Empire at War.

I meant is it one of those obscure ships they let into Armada after the merger?

20 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I meant is it one of those obscure ships they let into Armada after the merger?

Before. Same with the Assault Frigate mk2. Being in a strategy video game with fleets probably influenced it.

24 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I meant is it one of those obscure ships they let into Armada after the merger?

It was in development beforehand, effectively.

In Armada, it’s tge contents of the Squad II packs that are questionable - EWing, Decimator, Phantom...

... but some of those had specific XWing approval, and it can be argued that things with prior approval are easier to gain cross approval.

All SHIPS since the merger have been canon in visual form, if not name type - I’m unsure about the actual validity of the Kuat and Cymoon refers specifucally, but the Chimaera model certainly usis