I also feel that the cost of the aces don't quite reflect the strength of their defense tokens enough vs the generics. So they are just much better to have over the generics in most cases. And then all the overlapping abilities get tedious to track and as has been mentioned, players need to measure and remeasure to be sure, cause the results are significant.

I'd like to see the aces re-costed a little higher to reset or even tip the balance of them back towards generics just a bit.

I feel the squad game doesn't bog down as much when it's mostly generics, even if it's a lot of them.

I agree it's a neat idea and I have been wondering about how it would have shaped the squadron game had the Ace pilots been treated as squadron upgrades. It'll be interesting to see how Legion's Personnel and Heavy Weapons upgrades work out, since they're more or less the same thing as what's being proposed here.

With that said, I think it poses far too many design and balance problems to be retrofitted in the game right now. A way this could work is to have alternate version of existing squads rather than upgrades, sort of like the non-ace uniques but... not... unique. I like that Green Squadron loses 1 on its counter but gains bomber. It's great, it offers variety without making things overly complex, it's just an alternate armament. I don't like that I'm limited to just 1 though.

As other have said, the squadron game is convoluted enough as it is due to the overabundance of "AoE" keywords and Aces. Seeing Shara and Tycho or Maarek and Ciena on the other side of the table is fine. Their special ability triggers when there is a direct interaction with them. However, a lot of the Aces or keywords trigger or affect everything around them, even when they're not necessarily part of the action (Intel, Soontir to name just 2) and that bogs the game down immensely.

I think FFG has painted itself in a corner a bit with the aces. They're a fun part of the game, as everybody likes rules-breaking upgrades (Attack twice with your squadrons! Attack from the same hull zone twice!), but they probably make things too complex in the end. I don't see how they can get out of the Ace arms race, outside of capping their number (which I would support).

Really, who likes seeing an opponent fill his side of the table with squadron cards. "So for squadrons, I have Colonel Jendon, Captain Jonus, Soontir Fel, Howlrunner, Dengar, Valen Rudor, Zertik Strom, Saber Squadron, Black Squadron and 12 generic ties". The number combos to keep track of would bring a small nation to its knees. It's impossible (ok, difficult, let me hyperbole for a moment, please ) to keep track of how many dice, how many rerolls, who can attack what and why. It's plain not fun.

"I am attacking you with 7 purple dice because of-"
"Just roll, I don't care"

14 hours ago, clontroper5 said:

To be Fair to the ssd, the Entire Rebel fleet was concentrating Fire at it and the a-wing was the More like the Hay that broke the Camels back

I doubt that the Rebel fleet had even scratched the shields.

19 hours ago, homedrone said:

I also feel that the cost of the aces don't quite reflect the strength of their defense tokens enough vs the generics. So they are just much better to have over the generics in most cases.

It's more complex than that. I would not merely compare the cost of generic and Ace to measure which one is more valuable. What you have to keep in mind is that the, for example, 7 additional points spent on the Ace "upgrade" could be 7 points not spent on, let's say, a TRC which could make a big difference. I am not saying that you aren't right, but I still think that we gotta compare points to points in general, not points specifically spent on squadrons.

4 hours ago, DScipio said:

I doubt that the Rebel fleet had even scratched the shields.

(Shield generator dome explodes)

"Sir we've lost our bridge deflector!"

19 hours ago, clontroper5 said:

To be Fair to the ssd, the Entire Rebel fleet was concentrating Fire at it and the a-wing was the More like the Hay that broke the Camels back

We should crowdsource funding for an Executor memorial orbiting Endor.

10 hours ago, CptAwesomer said:

With that said, I think it poses far too many design and balance problems to be retrofitted in the game right now.

<Cue FFG's announcement of Armada 2.0>

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

<Cue FFG's announcement of Armada 2.0>

Well, seeing how long it took to get an SSD announcement, I'd say we should be safe for a year or two

I like where your mind is at OP

but this game has way too many cards, tokens and other misc. "stuff" to keep track of and set up and take down. Adding something else would probably push me out of the game. I like playing the game but the management of all the "stuff" keeps me from wanting to start a game a lot of times.

59 minutes ago, geek19 said:

(Shield generator dome explodes)

"Sir we've lost our bridge deflector!"

See? It went out intact.

6 hours ago, DScipio said:

I doubt that the Rebel fleet had even scratched the shields.

Well, according to the original script and story boards, Madine's task force (at least 8 MC80s and the entirety of Green Group's A-Wings and Blue Group's B-Wings) were attacking the Executor after Ackbar ordered the attack upon it. The battle with the SSD was supposed to be a big subplot of the RotJ's space battle, but ultimately was dropped either because of the complexity involved in filming the battle of Endor or because they felt they already had enough plot complexity with Han & Ewoks, Lando & Spaceships, and Luke vs Palp. They also dropped a subplot between Palpatine and Jerjerrod.

You can find a bit of the old storyboards online, and on YouTube you can find deleted scenes of Madine swiveling about in his command chair and of a Sullustan and Mon Cal B-Wing pilot that were meant to be part of Blue Squadron's assault on the SSD.

In the final film all that really remains of this subplot on screen is the dozen or so MonCals visible attacking the SSD in the background of the scenes focusing on Arvel's crash.

It was basically intended to be like this:

1) Ackbar orders the attack on the SSD
2) Madine leads his task force of Mon Cals to pummel the Executor , with assistance by Blue and Green Group
3) The barrage eventually drops the SSD's bridge deflector shields
4) With the shield down, Green Squadron assaults the Port Sensor Array and blows it up (we see this on film)
5) Blue Squadron attacks the starboard Sensor Array and blows it up
6) As these events are happening, a bridge officer shouts to Piett "We've lost our deflectors!"*
*note, the Sensor Array domes were not originally meant to be the shield generators or shield projectors, it's correlated but not casually related that the destruction of the array (made possible by the shield being down) corresponds with the officer telling Piett the shields are down. It wasn't until much later that the community misconception led to those sensor dome arrays becoming the shield generators/projectors.
7) Piett orders forward firepower to be intensified so noting can get to the bridge while shields are recovering
8.) Because the sensor arrays were down, the top-guns had a much harder time tracking the star fighters making attack runs on the bridge
9) Arvel's run (and those of the other fighters) were intended to barrage the bridge with ordnance, not suicide
10) During the flak fire, Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged, and he instead opts to just spin his careening craft into the bridge
11) With bridge control disrupted, Madine's MC80s use their tractor beams to push the Executor into the DSII


Of course, presumably in canon all of this still happened at the Battle of Endor, even if all we see make it on screen is "Concentrate Fire on that SSD!" *Port Array Blows up* "Shields out / Too Late!" *Arvel Crashes* *SSD Smashes into DSII*


THE MORE YOU KNOW! (tm)

16 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Well, according to the original script and story boards, Madine's task force (at least 8 MC80s and the entirety of Green Group's A-Wings and Blue Group's B-Wings) were attacking the Executor after Ackbar ordered the attack upon it. The battle with the SSD was supposed to be a big subplot of the RotJ's space battle, but ultimately was dropped either because of the complexity involved in filming the battle of Endor or because they felt they already had enough plot complexity with Han & Ewoks, Lando & Spaceships, and Luke vs Palp. They also dropped a subplot between Palpatine and Jerjerrod.

You can find a bit of the old storyboards online, and on YouTube you can find deleted scenes of Madine swiveling about in his command chair and of a Sullustan and Mon Cal B-Wing pilot that were meant to be part of Blue Squadron's assault on the SSD.

In the final film all that really remains of this subplot on screen is the dozen or so MonCals visible attacking the SSD in the background of the scenes focusing on Arvel's crash.

It was basically intended to be like this:

1) Ackbar orders the attack on the SSD
2) Madine leads his task force of Mon Cals to pummel the Executor , with assistance by Blue and Green Group
3) The barrage eventually drops the SSD's bridge deflector shields
4) With the shield down, Green Squadron assaults the Port Sensor Array and blows it up (we see this on film)
5) Blue Squadron attacks the starboard Sensor Array and blows it up
6) As these events are happening, a bridge officer shouts to Piett "We've lost our deflectors!"*
*note, the Sensor Array domes were not originally meant to be the shield generators or shield projectors, it's correlated but not casually related that the destruction of the array (made possible by the shield being down) corresponds with the officer telling Piett the shields are down. It wasn't until much later that the community misconception led to those sensor dome arrays becoming the shield generators/projectors.
7) Piett orders forward firepower to be intensified so noting can get to the bridge while shields are recovering
8.) Because the sensor arrays were down, the top-guns had a much harder time tracking the star fighters making attack runs on the bridge
9) Arvel's run (and those of the other fighters) were intended to barrage the bridge with ordnance, not suicide
10) During the flak fire, Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged, and he instead opts to just spin his careening craft into the bridge
11) With bridge control disrupted, Madine's MC80s use their tractor beams to push the Executor into the DSII


Of course, presumably in canon all of this still happened at the Battle of Endor, even if all we see make it on screen is "Concentrate Fire on that SSD!" *Port Array Blows up* "Shields out / Too Late!" *Arvel Crashes* *SSD Smashes into DSII*


THE MORE YOU KNOW! (tm)

How much better this would have been!