Just curious, would you have liked if FFG made squadron upgradeable?

Perhaps something like that:

I like that they handle it by ship cards like flight controllers or the whats-his-name that gives counter.

Some modified squadrons as cards like green squadron but not unique would be interesting.

Both avoids the clutter of individual squadron upgrade cards.

All that said, I want a bwing with death star laser.

Offensive upgrade. Fighter ammunition magazine. Squadrons you activate gain one blue anti ship dice points 7 to 9

10 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Offensive upgrade. Fighter ammunition magazine. Squadrons you activate gain one blue anti ship dice points 7 to 9

Seven die interceptors?

please not, though I play imperial....

Edit:

my bad, I should read all the words, never mind

but still: three die b wings and four die decimators?

12 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Offensive upgrade. Fighter ammunition magazine. Squadrons you activate gain one blue anti ship dice points 7 to 9

That would certainly shift the fighter power pendulum (maybe to far)

ISD-I, Taskmaster Grint, Flight Controllers, Expanded Hangar & Fighter Ammunition Magazine, Sloane .

Ouch. Six TIE-Phantoms with 2 Red + Blue or just TIE-Fighters with a pair of blues. Each with their Sloane reroll for more damage or token spending accuracies.

B-Wings from a MC80C or AFIIB would also be vicious especially with BCC and Troyn nearby. At least it can't go on Yavaris.

I reckon the squadron game is convoluted enough as it is; the new Models and Aces have led to max squad games taking longer and longer.

These are cool, but I just don’t think it’s healthy for the game.

There is also the risk with these that it will lead to an unforeseen power combo. The more upgrades, the more restricted the future options are.

1 hour ago, DScipio said:

Just curious, would you have liked if FFG made squadron upgradeable?

Perhaps something like that:

I thought -- when I started to play Armada -- that it would have been cool to get aces as a sort of upgrade cards and that it should be able to mount them to different vessels. But I fear it would be much harder to foresee the impact of aces and/or squadrons to the game. So it's okay for me the way it is.

But for a casual game? Still cool to let fly Han Solo a Headhunter like in the Stars End novel or maybe Tycho in his x-wing.

2 minutes ago, Triangular said:

I thought -- when I started to play Armada -- that it would have been cool to get aces as a sort of upgrade cards and that it should be able to mount them to different vessels. But I fear it would be much harder to foresee the impact of aces and/or squadrons to the game. So it's okay for me the way it is.

But for a casual game? Still cool to let fly Han Solo a Headhunter like in the Stars End novel or maybe Tycho in his x-wing.

Thats exactly my feeling, much more difficult to balance but allwos for more flexibility and narrative in casual games.

And it would be a bit closer to the X-Wing / TIE-Fighter games feeling.

Just now, DScipio said:

And it would be a bit closer to the X-Wing / TIE-Fighter games feeling.

Always loved them! TIE Fighter Collector's CD-Rom in particular!

I would like, but that would turn squadrons more expensive... unless they could rise the squadron cost limit per fleet, that would be ok.

3 hours ago, Captain_Nemo said:

Seven die interceptors?

please not, though I play imperial....

Edit:

my bad, I should read all the words, never mind

but still: three die b wings and four die decimators?

Two die defenders or three die firesprays

Yeesh. . . I remember this discussion from Wave 0. . . Still no thanks. Its more things on the table, you would have to have it for every squadron or have different squad cards and they would have to redesign things. It would make squadrons immensely powerful.

Yeah. Squadrons dont need that. The squadrons are powerful as is. They dont need any upgrades. If you want to do intense fighter combat with upgrades go play XWING.

The endless sqn phases already slow the game down, with constant measurement. The only sqn change I want to see is no measuring from anything but the sqn base and touch it or measure from it and you move it.

We have to keep in mind the reason why we play this game. We are looking for that feeling that we are the Grand admiral of a entire fleet. It's fun that we have squadrons, making the game look more realistic and ad a layer for strategy and tactics, but remember that Armada is a ship game at first. The squadron games is long enough the way we are playing now. It's fun but don't push the limit too far.

I really don't want something like Attack Wing (squadronless), but it's true, if I want to play more squadron centered, I can play with my X-Wing stuff

Sometimes, I'm missing that old time when we had only squadron pack 1.

Keep Armada a ship games. I like both games (Armada and X-Wing) but when I want to play Armada, I'm looking for that kind of game.

But that is just my opinion.

I think the squadron game is already complex and fiddily enough as it is, especially with unique squadrons being so popular. I think upgrades for squadrons would just add to the fiddiliness with diminishing returns.

13 hours ago, Phil B said:

The endless sqn phases already slow the game down, with constant measurement. The only sqn change I want to see is no measuring from anything but the sqn base and touch it or measure from it and you move it.

YES PLEASE.

Armada used to be my favorite of FFG games, yet I've come to dread playing it in tournaments because so many opponents pre-measure, measure again, pick up a squad, move it, measure distance to every other squad and ship, put it down, check measurements again, pick it up, remeasure, and nudge it a bit before finally placing it. Range dependent abilities on squadrons like Intel, Grit, Relay , Mauler's ability, Ten's ability, etc. just further compound these measurements.

Ugh, it's obnoxious and a huge time sink, but if you're not willing to do this in return with your own squadrons then you get nickel-and-dimed out of such games.

I realize this micro-meter measure thrice, move twice, place once aspect of the squadron game is a tactical element to the game, and that some people greatly enjoy it, but it's sure not what I love about Armada ...

Unique pilots are kind of the upgrade for Squadrons in Armada.

15 hours ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

We have to keep in mind the reason why we play this game. We are looking for that feeling that we are the Grand admiral of a entire fleet. It's fun that we have squadrons, making the game look more realistic and ad a layer for strategy and tactics, but remember that Armada is a ship game at first. The squadron games is long enough the way we are playing now. It's fun but don't push the limit too far.

I really don't want something like Attack Wing (squadronless), but it's true, if I want to play more squadron centered, I can play with my X-Wing stuff

Sometimes, I'm missing that old time when we had only squadron pack 1.

Keep Armada a ship games. I like both games (Armada and X-Wing) but when I want to play Armada, I'm looking for that kind of game.

But that is just my opinion.

I am not PRO-Upgrades, but from WWII up to now, the most important decision in naval warfare for an admiral is the use of his squadrons, including the question of equipment and armament (Bombs or Torpedos for example).

I also dont think that Armada is a ship game, its a small fleet game and squadron warfare is a important factor of it.

17 minutes ago, DScipio said:

I am not PRO-Upgrades, but from WWII up to now, the most important decision in naval warfare for an admiral is the use of his squadrons, including the question of equipment and armament (Bombs or Torpedos for example).

That's the reason you choose between headhunters and b-wings.

I mean the options right now are like 12-13 generics and 21-22 aces with 13 keywords covering screen duties, bombing duties, escort, support, hit&run, etc. Add also Sloane and, maybe, Sato.

Just thinking on equipping my tie fighter force makes me eager to look for permutations with my limited legion collection.

TL;DR

22 hours ago, DScipio said:

Just curious, would you have liked if FFG made squadron upgradeable?

Glad they didn't.

Imagine if you could tailor the Rieekan Yav Aces or Sloane fleets with individual upgrades. We'd see a meta at least as terrible as late stage X-Wing 1.0 with mandatory "fixes" released every few months just to keep the game playable for one side or the other.

I'm honestly not entirely happy with aces now as-is. Most are too cheap for their effect especially AOE units like Jan Ors, Col. Jendon, Mauler Mithel, Norra Wexley etc. plus the omnipresent defense tokens keeping them alive forever. Restricting upgrades to ships gives everything an opportunity cost, because you'll almost always have fewer ships than squads and ships are far more vulnerable to enemy ships than squadrons are, allowing counterparty with and without fighter wings.

I wonder if we will get an aces nerf like the flotilla rule. No more than 4 aces in a fleet?

Personally I like carrier fleets and squads a lot most of my fleet designs are max squads. Would not be a fan of such a rule, but I'd understand.

3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Glad they didn't.

Imagine if you could tailor the Rieekan Yav Aces or Sloane fleets with individual upgrades. We'd see a meta at least as terrible as late stage X-Wing 1.0 with mandatory "fixes" released every few months just to keep the game playable for one side or the other.

I'm honestly not entirely happy with aces now as-is. Most are too cheap for their effect especially AOE units like Jan Ors, Col. Jendon, Mauler Mithel, Norra Wexley etc  . plus the omnipresent defense tokens keeping them alive forever. Restricting upgrades to ships gives everything an opportunity cost, because you'll almost always have fewer ships than squads and ships are far more vulnerable to enemy ships than squadrons are, allowing counterparty with and without fighter wings.

My wish, and I do not expect to ever see it implemented, would be a built in counter attack for ships vs Squads, and critical hits count as 2 hits on squads from ships, at least as one. Coming from X-Wing, all the squad play is something I do not care for, I want to play capital ships, not a Epic X-Wing game. I hate Yavaris Ace, especially with Luke, lists.

On 8/14/2018 at 4:05 AM, DScipio said:

I am not PRO-Upgrades, but from WWII up to now, the most important decision in naval warfare for an admiral is the use of his squadrons, including the question of equipment and armament (Bombs or Torpedos for example).

I also dont think that Armada is a ship game, its a small fleet game and squadron warfare is a important factor of it.

I think you miss some of what I said. I do like squadron... I really don't want something like Attack Wing.

But the squadron game is now too strong for what that game is supposed to be. A fleet game where your ship are doing something good.

You are talking with someone who really know well WW2. I do know that a grand majority of fleet combat loss a due to dive bomber or torpido, not direct hit by ship guns. But we are not playing a WW2 game like Axies and Allies naval miniatures. Could we make it more like "Star Wars". Yes in the movies, one squadron (a A-Wing) crash down a 19 km ship, a single shot of torpido blew up a Death Star but I think the majority of us are looking for the big ship, noy really the squadron. They are important but not supposed to be the center piece of this game. That's my point of view

6 minutes ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

I think you miss some of what I said. I do like squadron... I really don't want something like Attack Wing.

But the squadron game is now too strong for what that game is supposed to be. A fleet game where your ship are doing something good.

You are talking with someone who really know well WW2. I do know that a grand majority of fleet combat loss a due to dive bomber or torpido, not direct hit by ship guns. But we are not playing a WW2 game like Axies and Allies naval miniatures. Could we make it more like "Star Wars". Yes in the movies, one squadron (a A-Wing) crash down a 19 km ship, a single shot of torpido blew up a Death Star but I think the majority of us are looking for the big ship, noy really the squadron. They are important but not supposed to be the center piece of this game. That's my point of view

To be Fair to the ssd, the Entire Rebel fleet was concentrating Fire at it and the a-wing was the More like the Hay that broke the Camels back