Doesn't this give it essentially a 270 degree firing arc with a docked ship? Now, damage values are inconsistent, but it can hit nearly anything around it 270 degrees.

Also factor in that the Dorsal Turret is range 1-2 only. That's still a lot of coverage, though.

It's quite a few points to get that extra 90 degrees. I'm hoping the Ghost hasn't been nerfed too hard, I did enjoy flying it. That said, there were some ridiculous builds in 1.0 (which weren't fun so I didn't fly them)

sort of

Only being able to shoot 2 dice at r 1-2 isn't exactly something of note when you're carting around at 74 points bare minimum . An Academy can hit as hard at its whooping 23 point cost.

The amount of dice thrown per side is incredibly important, because it rewards your opponent for sliding into your weaker arc by sharply limiting the damage you can throw at them. This is good game design, bless 2nd edition ?

So, you could shoot at almost anything...but at two dice you're highly unlikely to actually hit anything.

Imo, Dorsal Turret is pretty worthless on anyone short of Kavil (+1 die, baby!) or if you're bringing someone for the sole purpose of hot-shot gunner

You can do the same trick for cheaper on a k-wing with barrage rockets and a sideways-aligned turret

19 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

sort of

Only being able to shoot 2 dice at r 1-2 isn't exactly something of note when you're carting around at 74 points bare minimum . An Academy can hit as hard at its whooping 23 point cost.

The amount of dice thrown per side is incredibly important, because it rewards your opponent for sliding into your weaker arc by sharply limiting the damage you can throw at them. This is good game design, bless 2nd edition ?

So, you could shoot at almost anything...but at two dice you're highly unlikely to actually hit anything.

Imo, Dorsal Turret is pretty worthless on anyone short of Kavil (+1 die, baby!) or if you're bringing someone for the sole purpose of hot-shot gunner

Don’t forget that Dorsal Turret throws an extra dice at range 1 in 2.0! Kavil starts slinging 4 while the Ghost would be throwing 3.

3 minutes ago, Innese said:

Don’t forget that Dorsal Turret throws an extra dice at range 1 in 2.0! Kavil starts slinging 4 while the Ghost would be throwing 3.

Yup.

Also the ghost is still pretty mean from the front, so you might want to go for her butt.

31 minutes ago, Innese said:

Don’t forget that Dorsal Turret throws an extra dice at range 1 in 2.0! Kavil starts slinging 4 while the Ghost would be throwing 3.

Eh, the Dorsal Turret is just bad, the only reason to take one is if you need a turret but cannot afford the extra two points for the ion. The Ion Turret will do more consistent damage and provides control options for only a tiny bit more expense.

Dorsal turret and agile gunner keeps your guns relatively hot. Ion turret might be more useful to swing your big front gun around onto target though.

A turret/gunner OR a docked ship seems good. A combo of both seems like the point of diminishing return though.

Yes, but the only decent VCX builds usually carry it locked forward for double-taps with veteran turret gunner. And don’t have a docked phantom. So you’re still locked into your front arc most of the time.

7 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yup.

Also the ghost is still pretty mean from the front, so you might want to go for her butt.

Woah, woah, this is a family site. The Ghost should be respected for her nice personality.

I don't think the dorsal turrent giving the ghost a 270° arc isn't the problem it's future realease of turrets, as it is more then likely they will release a turrent that costs more and has 3 dice in the far future and when that happens we will have to hope it has a big restriction from either no large bases or spend a focus to use it.

8 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

sort of

Only being able to shoot 2 dice at r 1-2 isn't exactly something of note when you're carting around at 74 points bare minimum . An Academy can hit as hard at its whooping 23 point cost.

The amount of dice thrown per side is incredibly important, because it rewards your opponent for sliding into your weaker arc by sharply limiting the damage you can throw at them. This is good game design, bless 2nd edition ?

So, you could shoot at almost anything...but at two dice you're highly unlikely to actually hit anything.

Imo, Dorsal Turret is pretty worthless on anyone short of Kavil (+1 die, baby!) or if you're bringing someone for the sole purpose of hot-shot gunner

Friendly reminder that turrets get range bonuses now.

Slap missiles on the Falcon and you get 270 degree coverage as well (but you need a target lock or focus to fire). Same goes for the Decimator. This is actually pretty common. The Ghost is the one ship that covers its aft (with a docked ship) so it can present a fully refused flank. It's an interesting design consideration the devs made - there's always an open arc.

9 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

An Academy can hit as hard at its whooping 23 point cost.

Cut the comm chatter, Trainee.

While I think 4-point Dorsal isn't as good as the old 2-point Autoblaster, my feeling is that it still adds something useful to the ship. The goal has to be getting primary weapon shots. Can't pay for that 4-dice attack and not hit with it. Having some sort of turret--even just Autoblaster--seemed mandatory on the 1e Ghost to me, because it was a cheap add-on, and because it added a bit of insurance against folks slipping out of arc. I flew a lot of double Lothal Rebel before Store Champs (and then got hosed 1-3 in a Rebel Swarm meta I should have changed lists against), and even though you only get like 2 shots per game with it, that's still usually pushing through a little damage. I'm not sure how the requirement of needing to rotate will work out. There will be a lot more forethought which will have to go into positioning the turret, and actions invested wisely. That's a good thing, but it does mean that there will be arc coverage. Still, I'd guess that the change from 70 to 74 points on a cheap Ghost is small enough that a turret is still worth it.

Where the Ghost really got nerfed was in the Sensor/System slot. Cheap Lothal Rebels used FCS to gain a lot of action economy. Without that, it looks rough. Toughness-wise, Reinforce >= 2 HP + Evade, but then you won't have anything for red dice mods, and that probably won't work. For loaded, supported Ghosts, the Sensor/System slot was also key. No way 2e Ghost Fenn works, since there's no Sensor Jammer to assist in rat****ing your opponent's dice. That's also a good thing: the old action economy of ghosts, whether through Fire Control System free target locks, Accuracy Corrector eliminating the need for any sort of offensive actions, or Sensor Jammer providing massive defensive benefits (every hit turned to an unconverted Focus is like a free Evade action).

1 hour ago, nikk whyte said:

Friendly reminder that turrets get range bonuses now.

1.) Dorsal ALWAYS got a range bonus

2.) Still a TIE Fighter ito offense, unless you use Kavil


I'd say ICT is easily the default choice on everyone who isn't Kavil, and as Rainbow said you're keeping it locked forward on the Ghost for Vet Gunner double-tap

25 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

1.) Dorsal ALWAYS got a range bonus

2.) Still a TIE Fighter ito offense, unless you use Kavil


I'd say ICT is easily the default choice on everyone who isn't Kavil, and as Rainbow said you're keeping it locked forward on the Ghost for Vet Gunner double-tap

Dorsal gets its card text AND a range bonus now.

Just now, nikk whyte said:

Dorsal gets its card text AND a range bonus now.

the card text is "attack" that's it.

card doesnt have to say jack about range bonus because its a baked in general rule now.

Unless theres a missile icon next to the ranges on the card, range bonuses apply.

All turrets/cannons apply R1 and R3 bonuses where applicable. Missiles/torpedos dont

37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

While I think 4-point Dorsal isn't as good as the old 2-point Autoblaster, my feeling is that it still adds something useful to the ship. The goal has to be getting primary weapon shots. Can't pay for that 4-dice attack and not hit with it. Having some sort of turret--even just Autoblaster--seemed mandatory on the 1e Ghost to me, because it was a cheap add-on, and because it added a bit of insurance against folks slipping out of arc. I flew a lot of double Lothal Rebel before Store Champs (and then got hosed 1-3 in a Rebel Swarm meta I should have changed lists against), and even though you only get like 2 shots per game with it, that's still usually pushing through a little damage. I'm not sure how the requirement of needing to rotate will work out. There will be a lot more forethought which will have to go into positioning the turret, and actions invested wisely. That's a good thing, but it does mean that there will be arc coverage. Still, I'd guess that the change from 70 to 74 points on a cheap Ghost is small enough that a turret is still worth it.

Where the Ghost really got nerfed was in the Sensor/System slot. Cheap Lothal Rebels used FCS to gain a lot of action economy. Without that, it looks rough. Toughness-wise, Reinforce >= 2 HP + Evade, but then you won't have anything for red dice mods, and that probably won't work. For loaded, supported Ghosts, the Sensor/System slot was also key. No way 2e Ghost Fenn works, since there's no Sensor Jammer to assist in rat****ing your opponent's dice. That's also a good thing: the old action economy of ghosts, whether through Fire Control System free target locks, Accuracy Corrector eliminating the need for any sort of offensive actions, or Sensor Jammer providing massive defensive benefits (every hit turned to an unconverted Focus is like a free Evade action).

One thing to keep in mind is that the Dorsal Turret may work well as a deterrent, so more of a defensive than offensive tool. Opponents should likely want to get to the unprotected arc or hit at rng 2-3 on the facing Dorsal arc to minimize return fire, which you can more easily predict where they will be for your own forces to strike at.

On your other note, I agree that the loss of the Sensor slot hurts the Ghost, but I never understood its inclusion to begin with. The Ghost never displays any level of sensors/systems in the series, so I always found it odd. The 2.0 version seems far more appropriate, so I'm good with it.

21 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

[...] I never understood its inclusion to begin with. The Ghost never displays any level of sensors/systems in the series, so I always found it odd. The 2.0 version seems far more appropriate, so I'm good with it.

The Sensor/System, Cannon, and Modification slots are kind of abstract anyway. It's not clear (in universe, of course) why a B-Wing can have upgraded electronics but an A-Wing can't, or why a Lambda-class can have an ion cannon but an X-Wing can't. It's much more important that upgrade slots allow fun combos and disallow overpowered combos than that they make thematic sense.

So I wonder what combo was deemed too strong on the Ghost to allow the Sensor slot? Maybe Fire Control System was too efficient on a ship that has many ways of shooting twice in one round?

2 minutes ago, AdmiralKirk said:

The Sensor/System, Cannon, and Modification slots are kind of abstract anyway. It's not clear (in universe, of course) why a B-Wing can have upgraded electronics but an A-Wing can't, or why a Lambda-class can have an ion cannon but an X-Wing can't. It's much more important that upgrade slots allow fun combos and disallow overpowered combos than that they make thematic sense.

So I wonder what combo was deemed too strong on the Ghost to allow the Sensor slot? Maybe Fire Control System was too efficient on a ship that has many ways of shooting twice in one round?

Actually, there's precedent for the B-wing to have a sensor/system slot, as well as a Lambda. There's none for the Ghost, or the A-wing, for that matter. I'm talking about fluff, not gameplay, but fluff should inform gameplay where possible when there's so much information available about the game pieces. I agree with you that gameplay should be the paramount concern, but it's nice when it doesn't contradict the fluff, which is where we're at now. I'm in a happy place.

1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

or the A-wing, for that matter.

The A-wing was equipped high-tech jammers and sensors so that it would be a force to be reckoned with. When I learned that the A-wing lacked a system slot to equip something like a Tactical Jammer (Which it canonically had), I was disappointed. But it turns out that Gameplay has to be > fluff.

Ps, I am talking about old canon and 1.0 here for my examples.

The ghost doesn't really need sensors

The K needs sensors because a.) It doesn't do anything special and b.) Rebels lost their trajectory simulator. Kinda gonna need it v all these jousters

Anyway, the biggest problem with the ghost (imo) is the same problem with the ARC...rebel crew kinda suck

Now the ARC has it far, FAR worse because literally every single rebel gunner only works on ****** turrets, but the Ghost can't make much headway on its crew slots either

Apart from magva's conditional TL and Saw's ridiculous (if slightly suicidal) super focus, rebs don't get built in modifiers like Scum Gunner Han or scum Lando or 0-0-0 etc.