How have folks felt about having Bayushi Kyo in the party? It seems like there might be conflicting goals due to Kyo's allegiance to the scorpion clan, who support the actions of Bayushi Sugai in the story. The character folio seems to imply that Kyo puts clan loyalty ahead of that to the other PCs, so how should things lead to Kyo becoming an Emerald Magistrate?
Beginners Game questions and clarifications
7 minutes ago, PiebeatsCake said:How have folks felt about having Bayushi Kyo in the party? It seems like there might be conflicting goals due to Kyo's allegiance to the scorpion clan, who support the actions of Bayushi Sugai in the story. The character folio seems to imply that Kyo puts clan loyalty ahead of that to the other PCs, so how should things lead to Kyo becoming an Emerald Magistrate?
Could be great storytelling for them to have a change of heart if you keep with the characters for a long time...
11 minutes ago, PiebeatsCake said:How have folks felt about having Bayushi Kyo in the party? It seems like there might be conflicting goals due to Kyo's allegiance to the scorpion clan, who support the actions of Bayushi Sugai in the story. The character folio seems to imply that Kyo puts clan loyalty ahead of that to the other PCs, so how should things lead to Kyo becoming an Emerald Magistrate?
Give the group a lot of reasons to be friendly to each other before it all goes down. Kyo is present for the brawl, perhaps. Maybe Kyo gets instruction from a different faction of the Scorpion who have caught wind of and believe Sugai's plan to be reckless. Kyo is then directed to assist in foiling him. Kyo can't deliver this information outright so will have to use other methods to make sure the PCs can fix the issue. Obviously Sugai should get to each point of his plan so as to keep things rolling, but that's just the nature of a starting adventure, right? Kyo could still choose to just tell people, but they should have good reasons to not trust a Scorpion, particularly one selling out the clan. If Kyo tells the party and then things play out as claimed, that could even serve to build trust.
Honestly, character goals at odds with the 'party' is something every character should have, not just the Scorpion. It's really what makes this game breathe. Other fantasy games can be pushed easily into happy adventuring companies, but L5R really shouldn't unless it is a single-clan group, something I have never seen at my table. Setting up clan loyalty, loyalty to local lords and teachers, loyalty to companions and friends and family...and then watching all of that pull at a character and adventuring group...that is L5R to me.
The trick is to give the group common goals and personal connections strong enough that working together makes sense. They don't even have to like each other, just be willing to work together for the sake of their honor or loyalty or what have you. I tend to let the Scorpion players not get caught by the other players until and unless it is really dramatically appropriate or they are actively working to kill the other PCs. Until they are out of the tournament. Then any move against a PC by any other PC is (at my table, at least) governed by what has the most dramatic potential. Most of the time, I let the Scorpion be Scorpion unless it really threatens the other players' happiness. Also talk to them openly about what's going on. Make it a meta game if they don't like secrets and being tricked by another player.
Our very first 1E campaign had a Scorpion who used a mild poison to sicken a Crane duelist so she wouldn't have to fight him. She won the tournament. Given starting PC stats, we handwaved a bit to let her get away with it because she wasn't actively trying to kill another PC (also the Crane she poisoned was an NPC). After that, it made for great RP. She became the group's leader and was constantly working to hide her Scorpion agenda as the group traveled the Empire as magistrates. It was further complicated in that she wanted to be honorable, but was too loyal to the clan to push back against them when they sent her secret jobs to do. Destroying the Hare nearly destroyed her as well.
We have betrayals, secrets, maneuvering, misdirection, and it's just fun. I don't generally allow PCs to kill each other (I am the only player to date to allow another PC to kill mine). That keeps anguish to a minimum. You just have to know their limits and what will break the game at your table.
I came into L5R late during 3rd ed, and never played the older Topaz stories. How does this one compare storywise? Will veteran players recognize it and be prone to spoilers, or is the BBox a new story?
7 minutes ago, bsmith23 said:I came into L5R late during 3rd ed, and never played the older Topaz stories. How does this one compare storywise? Will veteran players recognize it and be prone to spoilers, or is the BBox a new story?
Here's the 3rd/4th Edition Topaz Championship file. While I haven't read the BBox adventure, from what bits I've heard about it, they are nothing similar storyline-wise.
Sugai was in the 1E Topaz Chamionship, IIRC, as a competitor.
Does it mention anywhere (BBox or Beta) if Silhouette makes a difference on TN in combat? Can't find it.
Also, how are Endurance, Composure, Focus, and Vigilance calculated? I thought I saw that someone said it changed from the Beta Character Sheets.
7 hours ago, bsmith23 said:Also, how are Endurance, Composure, Focus, and Vigilance calculated? I thought I saw that someone said it changed from the Beta Character Sheets.
From what I know (but I haven't got direct experience yet), the elements of Composure and Endurance just swapped. Formulas are the same, but Water now goes to Composure and Fire to Endurance. Everyone seems to like the change, and I'm ok with it... I noticed it did make my players' characters a tad more "as they should have been". So it's cool.
Edited by rrockmanOn 9/5/2018 at 7:15 PM, Wyrmdog said:Honestly, character goals at odds with the 'party' is something every character should have, not just the Scorpion. It's really what makes this game breathe.
Agreed. Equally, whilst Loyalty is a massive scorpion thing, so is 'do what needs to be done' - if a faction of the scorpion is sponsoring something which will splash negatively on the clan, and they're going to be caught, then having a(nother) scorpion stop them is potentially good for the clan.
I have a Phoenix Shugenja in my party and I was wondering how you handled the Taryu-Jiai at the end?
The game state the Iajustsu contest is the way to go and Shugenjas are doing a Taryu-Jiai instead but they don't tell the roll to make. I'm assuming it would be a TN 1 Theology check. Would that be correct?
7 minutes ago, timezero said:I have a Phoenix Shugenja in my party and I was wondering how you handled the Taryu-Jiai at the end?
The game state the Iajustsu contest is the way to go and Shugenjas are doing a Taryu-Jiai instead but they don't tell the roll to make. I'm assuming it would be a TN 1 Theology check. Would that be correct?
That sounds workable. I believe in prior editions, Taryu-Jiai was just done as raw Ring rolls, but personally I like the idea of using the Theology skill, or maybe Meditation.
Why is Hitoshi not using a family name?
2 hours ago, bsmith23 said:Why is Hitoshi not using a family name?
Mantis don't have family names. They use their ship or port instead. So he could maybe use something like that, but he also hasn't completed his gempukku, so I'm not sure if that factors in.
18 minutes ago, deraforia said:Mantis don't have family names. They use their ship or port instead. So he could maybe use something like that, but he also hasn't completed his gempukku, so I'm not sure if that factors in.
I can work with that. Im afb, but doesnt it mention a ship name somewhere in the story, or am i misremembering?
A chart of the Championship: judges, front-runners, winners and losers. Hope its helpful (and you can open it!)
If I have time I'm going back and adding the judges' advice.
Edited by bsmith23You da bomb, shawty. You da "you da bomb."
I went through the old 4e one and did my own little conversion work with it, and then tried to figure out how I wanted to handle the approaches favored ring points on my own. This is a great supplement!
I did a few things differently. I'm using Sumai as a duel for the players to get used to that, Conduct as an Intrigue, and Weaponry as a skirmish. But this is very helpful to me for the rest. Thank you very much!
Edited by Hida JitennoPlayed the first half this past weekend, looking forward to the rest. Players were very worried about strife.
You remove strife partially at the end of a scene, when you unmask, or complete a complication. Some were wondering if there is a way to do more in downtime, like meditating, exercising, things one would normally do to remove stress.
6 minutes ago, bsmith23 said:Played the first half this past weekend, looking forward to the rest. Players were very worried about strife.
Yeah, I had a player who decided he had to stop accepting Strife at halfway to his Composure. He flat-out refused to accept more, so he started failing at everything, got more and more petulant over it as the night wore on. It was only AFTER the game when I discussed it with him at some length that he seemed to relent and understand it a little better. Even so, I expect more issues with him going forward.
I think keeping scenes relatively short when there is die-rolling can help with players like him but we'll see. He seemed to be under the impression that hitting his Composure and unmasking is the end of the game for him.
On 9/5/2018 at 6:33 PM, PiebeatsCake said:How have folks felt about having Bayushi Kyo in the party? It seems like there might be conflicting goals due to Kyo's allegiance to the scorpion clan, who support the actions of Bayushi Sugai in the story. The character folio seems to imply that Kyo puts clan loyalty ahead of that to the other PCs, so how should things lead to Kyo becoming an Emerald Magistrate?
We used Kyo in our game and I made it work by having Sugai acting "on his own initiative" so Kyo was almost there as 'Internal affairs'.
On 9/12/2018 at 3:43 PM, bsmith23 said:A chart of the Championship: judges, front-runners, winners and losers. Hope its helpful (and you can open it!)
If I have time I'm going back and adding the judges' advice.
You are missing the Hunting Competition results.
42 minutes ago, sndwurks said:You are missing the Hunting Competition results.
Saw that this weekend...
Just finished reading the adventure, and maybe I missed something, but how exactly are the PCs supposed to discover Hitoshi's parentage? Satsume is super vague about it, even if you find his note, and it doesn't seem like Sugai actually reveals anything. I get that learning the truth isn't necessary for success, but it would probably go a long way toward helping the players understand all that happened. I'm not sure my mine would be able to piece together all the subtle implications; I'd rather not spell it out explicitly for them out of character, but it also seems like it would be terribly out of character for any of the other characters who do know or have suspicions to reveal them.
53 minutes ago, persondude said:Just finished reading the adventure, and maybe I missed something, but how exactly are the PCs supposed to discover Hitoshi's parentage? Satsume is super vague about it, even if you find his note, and it doesn't seem like Sugai actually reveals anything. I get that learning the truth isn't necessary for success, but it would probably go a long way toward helping the players understand all that happened. I'm not sure my mine would be able to piece together all the subtle implications; I'd rather not spell it out explicitly for them out of character, but it also seems like it would be terribly out of character for any of the other characters who do know or have suspicions to reveal them.
So the way I approached this was to give big hints when describing Hitoshi.
-Hitoshi has long silky black hair. His skin is as smooth as that of a Crane, a feature you haven't really seen in other Mantis members.
Another big set of clues is in the adventure during the feast in Scene 7.
-Everybody, including NPCs, gives Toshimoko a gift that usually represents something from the land they came from. Except for Bayushi Mei Lin. She gives Toshimoko a perfume (I think?) with a fragrance that is well known to come from the Mantis clan.
-Hitoshi and Toshimoko each stare each other down after his outburst. You notice that Hitoshi has a grim look on his face. When you look over at Toshimoko you realize he has an identical look as well, not just emotionally, but his physical features are identical as well.
Mix that together with both the note and Doji Satsume's words and it shouldn't be too hard for the players to piece together. If the players aren't familiar with L5R lore then during the tea ceremony you should have Doji Satsume emphasize that he only has 3 children: Doji Hotaru, Doji Kuwanana and Doji Shizue. The reason for this is that I've seen other people say that their players were convinced that Hitoshi was the bastard child of Doji Satsume instead of Kakita Toshimoko.
On 9/11/2018 at 9:24 AM, bsmith23 said:I can work with that. Im afb, but doesnt it mention a ship name somewhere in the story, or am i misremembering?
They mention a few of the ships he has served on. That being said, Mantis don't have a family name because ages ago their champion kidnapped the Imperial Heir and had their family name stripped away (theoretically implying that they are permanently ronin). Yoritomo later then restored it.
This is AEG story though.