1 minute ago, Piratical Moustache said:The Rebel Alliance has used CIS ships like the Lucrehulk in both Canon and Legends. Many Separatists joined the Rebels to continue the war against the Empire after the Clone Wars.
Canon? Where?
The Executor opens up for a number of other ships..
1 minute ago, Seabook said:Canon? Where?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucrehulk_Prime
There's 1 example with more listed on Wookieepedia.
3 hours ago, Seabook said:Canon? Where?
Rebel One, a CIS Providence Class Ship was also Leia’s command ship for a time.
1 hour ago, ImpStarDeuces said:Rebel One, a CIS Providence Class Ship was also Leia’s command ship for a time.
That one’s cool, but obscure EU.
I have no idea if any of those references are canon or not, they sound EU to me as well
1 hour ago, Seabook said:I have no idea if any of those references are canon or not, they sound EU to me as well
Well, the one linked for you was linked to the canon section of Wookieepediea
When I get my SSD, I am going to put a little sign on the aft end of mine saying:
"I BRAKE FOR NO ONE".........................
4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:Well, the one linked for you was linked to the canon section of Wookieepediea
Indeed, but still doesn't look canon a Separatist ship to be a Rebel one, but oh well, would need to read those comics to understand why
12 minutes ago, Seabook said:Indeed, but still doesn't look canon a Separatist ship to be a Rebel one, but oh well, would need to read those comics to understand why
You don’t feel it’s appropriate for the Rebels to, and I quote, “use anything they can get their grubby mits on?”
5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:You don’t feel it’s appropriate for the Rebels to, and I quote, “use anything they can get their grubby mits on?”
Well, someone already wrote about capturing a SSD for the Rebels, so yeah, why not a Separatist ship? ?
4 minutes ago, Seabook said:Well, someone already wrote about capturing a SSD for the Rebels, so yeah, why not a Separatist ship? ?
Ex separatist.
as in
it was junk leftover from the war
so they rebuilt it from a floating junk pile.
4 hours ago, stuh42asl said:When I get my SSD, I am going to put a little sign on the aft end of mine saying:
"I BRAKE FOR NO ONE".........................
Too bad it doesn't turn, would be fun to see
I might even paint it plaid.......................As in Lord Dark Helmet we are now at ludicrous speed..............look...... everything has just turned plaid....
2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:You don’t feel it’s appropriate for the Rebels to, and I quote, “use anything they can get their grubby mits on?”
Us grubby-mitters prefer the terms "burgle", "borrow" or "liberate", thank you very much ?
Personally I dont like the inclusion of the Executor. Something that big shouldn't be on the battlefield, it should BE the battlefield. I can understand FFG's logic that the Executor will sell (gotta make a profit) but they could have gone with a Secutor or Belator, or even created their own (there was no Raider corvette to my knowledge till they invented it).
Dont get me wrong, the idea of including Huge scale ships in Armada is fine by me but the Executor is in the realm of Vast or Gargantuan scale! Why not go with bringing out a textured gaming table (a la GW) and rules to cover fighting around/above such a gargantuan and majestic terror. The board could even cross over into XWing to represent dogfighting above a Victory or ISD (or Mon Cal).
1 hour ago, ZakHems said:Why not go with bringing out a textured gaming table (a la GW) and rules to cover fighting around/above such a gargantuan and majestic terror. The board could even cross over into XWing to represent dogfighting above a Victory or ISD (or Mon Cal).
Because people want to play with the SSD as a miniature on the board, not pretending it's there with a textured game mat or table. It would be beyond boring.
Imagine how frustrating would that have been at GenCon if the big reveal after a year's worth of nothing was: "Surprise! We've kept Armada in the dark for almost a year but now we're ready to announce... THIS!"
*Unfolds a game mat with a picture of an SSD on it*
"Now you can
pretend
to have an SSD! Sure, you could do the same with a blank game mat and apply the game rules we'll be coming out with for this ship-mat, but this one has a
picture
of an SSD! Pretty cool, huh?"
On 8/14/2018 at 7:27 PM, The Jabbawookie said:That one’s cool, but obscure EU.
I mean, no more obscure than Assault Frigates, MC30s, Victory-class Star Destroyers, Qasars, Arquitens, and Raiders really.
I mean, given that Luchrehulks and Providence-class battleships appeared on the big screen, one could argue that that they are less obscure than anything above, and the fact that Rebels had some of those ships isn't a hugely difficult thing for anyone to wrap their head around.
1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
I mean, no more obscure than Assault Frigates, MC30s, Victory-class Star Destroyers, Qasars, Arquitens, and Raiders really.
I mean, given that Luchrehulks and Providence-class battleships appeared on the big screen, one could argue that that they are less obscure than anything above, and the fact that Rebels had some of those ships isn't a hugely difficult thing for anyone to wrap their head around.
I think he was stating that ship being used by the Rebels is obscure EU. If the Lucrehulk or Providence was being fielded by the CIS, I don’t think anyone would have issue with it because it was used by that specific faction on the big screen.
2 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:Because people want to play with the SSD as a miniature on the board, not pretending it's there with a textured game mat or table. It would be beyond boring.
Imagine how frustrating would that have been at GenCon if the big reveal after a year's worth of nothing was: "Surprise! We've kept Armada in the dark for almost a year but now we're ready to announce... THIS!"
*Unfolds a game mat with a picture of an SSD on it*
"Now you can pretend to have an SSD! Sure, you could do the same with a blank game mat and apply the game rules we'll be coming out with for this ship-mat, but this one has a picture of an SSD! Pretty cool, huh?"
You seem to have glossed over the bit where I said textured. Not a roll out mat, something with height and depth. Something you could display your models on. Something with gun turrets, control towers, shield generators. You know, objectives to attack and defend.
Sure, having a model of an SSD is cool. It's a good model. It's the scale difference. To make the game work there is a bit of scale adjustment as you go up the ship sizes, but they are all in the same ball park. The Executor is out the ball park, across the street and half way through somebody's living room!
The Secutor is twice the size of an ISD, so twice the base length. Sure, crack on with that. Executor is 5 times the size!
You are right, people want an SSD in their collection so it will sell. It just doesn't feel right in the game.
33 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:I think he was stating that ship being used by the Rebels is obscure EU. If the Lucrehulk or Providence was being fielded by the CIS, I don’t think anyone would have issue with it because it was used by that specific faction on the big screen.
Obscure or not, I can't understand why it would be a stretch for anyone to believe that the Rebels would be using any ships they could get. Old CIS ships being the most likely source. Separatist Hold outs are already Canon, is it really hard to imagine they become part of the Rebel alliance?
2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
I mean, no more obscure than Assault Frigates, MC30s, Victory-class Star Destroyers, Qasars, Arquitens, and Raiders really.
I mean, given that Luchrehulks and Providence-class battleships appeared on the big screen, one could argue that that they are less obscure than anything above, and the fact that Rebels had some of those ships isn't a hugely difficult thing for anyone to wrap their head around.
I mean. Arquitens was in 2 recent star wars shows. Quasar in Rebels. Raider was in one of the biggest star wars games recently as well. (Even if it was riddled with so much ****)
8 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:I mean. Arquitens was in 2 recent star wars shows. Quasar in Rebels. Raider was in one of the biggest star wars games recently as well. (Even if it was riddled with so much ****)
And it was made specifically for X-wing, FFG’s only other Star Wars space miniatures game. And the VSD, Gladiator, AFMKII and MC30 are all waves 1 and 2, indicating a pretty strong shift toward more well-known, canon craft (the VSD is canon, but barely mentioned.)
1 hour ago, ZakHems said:You seem to have glossed over the bit where I said textured. Not a roll out mat, something with height and depth. Something you could display your models on. Something with gun turrets, control towers, shield generators. You know, objectives to attack and defend.
Sure, having a model of an SSD is cool. It's a good model. It's the scale difference. To make the game work there is a bit of scale adjustment as you go up the ship sizes, but they are all in the same ball park. The Executor is out the ball park, across the street and half way through somebody's living room!
The Secutor is twice the size of an ISD, so twice the base length. Sure, crack on with that. Executor is 5 times the size!
You are right, people want an SSD in their collection so it will sell. It just doesn't feel right in the game.
While a textured mat/table would be visually interesting it still wouldn't really all that much to the game. Having destructible objectives and gun turrets on the map would just be visual extensions and slight modifications of the objectives that already exist in the game and that we play (ex. Station Assault, Planetary Ion Canon, Show of Force, and Armed Station). And it would be a scenario
The SSD model we're getting adds a new class of ship with it's own special rules that can be used in both standard play and a new game mode. That's what people (I'm assuming) want in the game. That's what should matter and be the focus when designing a ship like the SSD for the game. Not how they have to work around it's in-universe size.
Sure, something like the Secutor-class could fit the sliding scale better for the size of the SSD miniature, but the Secutor (and any other Legends/EU) ships aren't recognizable. Marketing-wise, the SSD was the only real choice for the games first huge-class ship.
I don't see how any argument about the scale difference for the SSD being too small can hold up at all. For starters, the ship is 2 feet long. It's still an absolutely enormous miniature when compared to all other ships in the game. It'll be the biggest ship in the game and that does feel right.
I don't see anyone complaining (not since wave 1) about how huge the corvettes, Arquitens, Nebulon-B's, flotillas, and fighter squadrons are in comparison with the huge ships like the Star Destroyer. If people aren't complaining about that, then why complain about the size of the SSD?
I'd guess that's because the ships play how a small ship or fighter squadron would, regardless of the model size. If the SSD plays like a huge-class ship should, then does it really matter at all that the model and base size are small enough to make it feasible to fit in the game?
TL/DR: It's not the size of the SSD model and base that matters, but how it's integrated and affects the game.
28 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:While a textured mat/table would be visually interesting it still wouldn't really all that much to the game. Having destructible objectives and gun turrets on the map would just be visual extensions and slight modifications of the objectives that already exist in the game and that we play (ex. Station Assault, Planetary Ion Canon, Show of Force, and Armed Station). And it would be a scenario
The SSD model we're getting adds a new class of ship with it's own special rules that can be used in both standard play and a new game mode. That's what people (I'm assuming) want in the game. That's what should matter and be the focus when designing a ship like the SSD for the game. Not how they have to work around it's in-universe size.
Sure, something like the Secutor-class could fit the sliding scale better for the size of the SSD miniature, but the Secutor (and any other Legends/EU) ships aren't recognizable. Marketing-wise, the SSD was the only real choice for the games first huge-class ship.
I don't see how any argument about the scale difference for the SSD being too small can hold up at all. For starters, the ship is 2 feet long. It's still an absolutely enormous miniature when compared to all other ships in the game. It'll be the biggest ship in the game and that does feel right.
I don't see anyone complaining (not since wave 1) about how huge the corvettes, Arquitens, Nebulon-B's, flotillas, and fighter squadrons are in comparison with the huge ships like the Star Destroyer. If people aren't complaining about that, then why complain about the size of the SSD?
I'd guess that's because the ships play how a small ship or fighter squadron would, regardless of the model size. If the SSD plays like a huge-class ship should, then does it really matter at all that the model and base size are small enough to make it feasible to fit in the game?TL/DR: It's not the size of the SSD model and base that matters, but how it's integrated and affects the game.
I see we are at odds here. I'm an aesthetics first, rules second hobbyist. It's not the rules for a new ship I don't like (as I had said previously) as having a massive unmaneuverable gun line sitting on the table is cool! (that's a tongue in cheek comment by the way) I would love to play a game on a table with towers and wreckage models etc. Adds nothing the rules, adds everything to the game.
Of course for others it's the other way round. Rules first, aesthetics second. Those that would happily play with bare stands on a floral tablecloth as long as they can use the newest OP model/fleet list. (more tongue in cheek)
I expect most people fall somewhere in the middle.
5 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:Obscure or not, I can't understand why it would be a stretch for anyone to believe that the Rebels would be using any ships they could get. Old CIS ships being the most likely source. Separatist Hold outs are already Canon, is it really hard to imagine they become part of the Rebel alliance?
I don't think it's a stretch at all and I can absolutely see it being used by the Rebel Alliance during the GCW. That doesn't mean that I want it being used by them in Armada. Please hear me out before someone jumps down my throat about this.
I love Armada. It's a really fun, balanced game, one that is relatively easy to learn and difficult to master, and that has a great theme in the Galactic Empire versus the Rebel Alliance during the Galactic Civil War. It is so good, in fact, that I am highly resistant to ideas that I think have the possibility of ruining why I love it.
Using your example of the Rebel One (mentioned as a CIS Providence Class Ship that was Leia’s command ship for a time), I believe that having this ship as part of the Rebel Alliance could open the door to two issues that have the possibility of ruining the game: Multi-faction ships and over-using Legends/EU/Obscure Cannon sources for ships and squadrons. Since the Clone Wars Republic and CIS factions are probably going to be added at some point, you will get the Providence-class (as well as the Venator, Lucrehulk, and Munificent) with their appropriate factions in time. If the Providence gets shoehorned into the Rebel Alliance, does this mean that they are going to have access to the Quasar and Imperials will have access to the CR90 and the Nebulon-B? And how long until people start asking for the Rebels to have a captured Star Destroyer, like the Emancipator ? Inclusions such as these will start to erode the theme of Armada. On the second point, Armada has done a great job of including recognizable ships and squadrons from canon and video game sources. Compare this to X-Wing, where a good amount of the squadrons are unrecognizable, even to a serious SW fan. I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that the majority of people that play Armada would choose maintaining the theme (whether it be PT, GCW, or ST) with recognizable ships over having an overabundance of ships of which they have no attachment.
This is why I am so resistant to a lot of the recent ideas that have come up on this forum, such as squadron upgrade cards, side decks, and dual-faction ships, just to name a few. These aren't necessarily bad ideas and may be fun in a campaign or even a local tournament, but at an FFG-level, they have the possibility of significantly altering the game that we love so much.
This is just my opinion, so obviously it means jack and the other thing. I just worry that in everyone's rush for new ships, squadrons, upgrades, factions, and mechanics, we aren't taking the time to look at the possible negative ramifications of some of the things that we are proposing.