On 9/30/2018 at 6:45 AM, Cammando64 said:

So on their website in one of thier articles it states that you can gain the benifit of both han and qi'ra without giving the defense die

Your first mistake is quoting FFG.

It is a well known fact on the forums that there are a huge amount of mistakes on news releases that FFG put out.

Qi'ra says "While you move and perform attacks, you ignore all obstacles that you are locking". There isn't a "may" key word here. You have to ignore them, there isn't any timing charts etc. For Qi'ra, the obstacle simply isn't there, so you can't proc Trick Shot from that obstacle.

I just wish who ever releases these news articles, would A) Play the game, and B) Read what the cards says.

15 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Typically an upgrade in an expansion pack "works" with the pilots in the expansion pack.

Like Afterburners in the fang Pack right?

1 minute ago, Archangelspiv said:

Like Afterburners in the fang Pack right?

Works with Quick Build cards from the pack

2 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Like Afterburners in the fang Pack right?

1 minute ago, Giledhil said:

Works with Quick Build cards from the pack

If you are playing quick build tournaments/play, sure. Interested how you go putting Afterburners on a Fang in an extended tournament.

3 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

If you are playing quick build tournaments/play, sure. Interested how you go putting Afterburners on a Fang in an extended tournament.

Come on, there is an official format where afterburners work with Fangs, and that means the pointis valid.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

Like Afterburners in the fang Pack right?

As other have noted it is usable in "Quick-build." I also used the word "typically." Between 1st Edition and thus far in 2nd Edition how many "Afterburners in the Fang Pack" have there been?

Okay, but even then, Qi'Ra and Han/Trick Shot not stacking does not make putting both in a box invalid.

• Qi'Ra does multiple things - allowing you to move through an obstacle without taking damage or losing your action, and to fire whilst at range 0 of an obstacle. Both of these effects are valuable even if she were to disallow han's ability.
• Unlike Dash/Outrider, Qi'Ra only affects obstacles you have locked. So you can be ignoring one rock whilst being affected by a second
• Han is not the only pilot of the Custom YT-1300, and Composure is also in the box as a talent.

I agree that 'ignore' would be worth a definition from the perspective of both Outrider (the 'red token' bit) and Han. But without one, I can't really see how to take it as anything other than 'treat it as if it wasn't there', which would make it contradict those abilities which gain a positive effect from obstacles.

I accept that the intended goal is for the two rules to work together, and when an Errata comes out, I'll be perfectly happy. But the intended goal and end result in FFG games is not always the same thing, and at least for the moment it doesn't seem like it's the case (much like a striker clipping things with an aileron move).

The problem is trying to shortcut spelling out what is intended with use of just the word "ignore."

Ignore needs purged from all game text in exception based rules systems like X-wing. If a designer is going to want us to "ignore" something they need to step back and assume no two people are going to take that the same way and that someone will make an argument to process it in a way not intended. This is especially true when the thing being ignored may still be interacting with something, an "ignore X and then X cause Y" situation.

As I pointed out in the Dash thread the only reason we're not having an argument about Instinctive Aim is because we don't have an effect that triggers off firing a weapon that requires a target lock. Some will say "ignore doesn't make the target lock go away so the effect triggers" and some will say "the target lock isn't there so the effect doesn't trigger."

Game Designers spare us all and cease using "ignore."

Bumping for posterity.

Ignore means ignore the effects of.

Quote

Q: What does “ignores obstacles” mean? Do Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300] and Qi’ra [Crew] work together? What about Dash Rendar [YT-2400] and Outrider [Title]?

A: When an effect says a ship “ignores obstacles,” it means that ship “ignores the effects of obstacles.” A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them. When that ship performs an attack that is obstructed by an obstacle it ignores the effects of the obstruction, so the defender does not roll 1 additional defense die being obstructed by the obstacles the attacker is ignoring.

However, the obstacles are still treated as being present for effects that check for their presence or absence. Additionally, an attack is obstructed by an obstacle even while the effects of the obstacle are ignored. This applies to cards such as Outrider , Han Solo [Pilot, Customized YT-1300], and Trick Shot (Talent).

Additionally, other ships do not ignore the obstacle when resolving effects that interact with a ship that is ignoring obstacles. For instance, while a ship that is ignoring obstacles defends, if the attack is obstructed, it still rolls 1 additional defense die because the attacker is not ignoring the effects of obstacles.

So if Han in the Customized YT-1300 makes an obstructed attack, your opponent rolls normal defense dice for the range of the attack and you roll one additional die.

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:16 AM, Giledhil said:

Absolutely not.

Preview articles doesn't give any clue about RAI, and it wouldn't be the first time they are completely wrong (K-wing bomb-slaming !? ).

But RAW, clearly, the interaction between Han and Qi’ra is only partial. You can't get a bonus from something you are ignoring.

Han would better not trust Qi'ra... like in the movie, maybe that's a clue on RAI

Well, after all, it seems that… Absolutely yes.

As I said, you were self-deluding in thinking this was gonna be ruled otherwise.

Yeah, bragging rights, I know.

So Qi'ra and trick shot Han work in tandem? He's rolling 4 dice and opponent rolls normal evade with no obstruction bonus?

8 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Well, after all, it seems that… Absolutely yes.

As I said, you were self-deluding in thinking this was gonna be ruled otherwise.

Yeah, bragging rights, I know.

Your head still fits through doors ?

8 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Your head still fits through doors ?

Absolutely not

3 hours ago, Cloaker said:

So Qi'ra and trick shot Han work in tandem? He's rolling 4 dice and opponent rolls normal evade with no obstruction bonus?

Add Trick Shot for more rules extravaganza!

On 10/4/2018 at 7:10 AM, Cloaker said:

So Qi'ra and trick shot Han work in tandem? He's rolling 4 dice and opponent rolls normal evade with no obstruction bonus?

Sorry for thread necroing, but i’d be interested if ALL the questions that this combo brings up have by now been OFFICIALLY answered.

The part has been clearly ruled already is that Qi’ra allows you to ignore the bonus green die for obstructed attacks but still counts as obstructed for Trick shot and Correlian Kid.

By this ruling, she should also allow you to not get stressed and thus take actions on locked debris.

What still needs clarification is if you can shoot at all while sitting on a locked asteroid. I have read multiple theories about being able to enter the perform attack step or not, but this is still unclear to me. And since it is not treated in the initial FAQ i saw, i am asking if there is an official ruling by now about this specific point!