If I may paraphrase Shut Up and Sit Down:

The insane archivist of Boredgamegeeks.com have already written down the boxes size in inches to 2 decimal places. They are going to save the coking pdf file.

57 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Well, yes. Eventually. They are t going to keep the license until, or beyond, the heat death of the universe.

Dont think they are going to loose it anytime soon, but it is entirely possible that Disney will gradually increase the cost of the license until it isn’t worth it for them to keep it anymore. They have done that before, though not recently, I think they are currently smarter than that, but that too can change.

True as that may be, FFG is doing a wonderful job with this game and they can afford a 2.0 AND great new models. They're very healthy.

And they have like five other star wars games that are doing well

Well... Not Armada...

Indeed. Though I hope the issues with Armada were due to the problems they had manufacturing the SSD, and now that is handled we’ll start seeing more stuff for it.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Whoa, ahah. Okay, I don't want to laugh but...

Do you actually think that with the resounding, growing, almost never failing success that is X-Wing Miniatures, that FFG would EVER lose the license!?

It is possible and for a number of reasons. Some of which are beyond FFGs control. When you're absolutely positive that something won't fail that's about the time you get bit in the butt. I remember tales of an unsinkable ship that did not end well.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

My answer to this is that FFG isn't required to support a game they aren't making products for anymore, and by the time 2.0 ends, there won't be that many people left caring about this anyway. Take for example how low the number is of people who will still be playing 1.0 even a month or so from now.

I think you're over estimating the draw of 2e. In my area there's a good number of players that have adopted a wait and see attitude.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well... EA is not doing well, and they are NOT losing the license. Business does not always make sense.

EA has an exclusive contract which was for 10 years total, which I'm pretty sure won't be up for a few years still

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, I have this create idea for Dictionary 2.0. The words are in one book, and the definitions are in a PDF. All you have to do is cross reference the page numbers.

It will make it super easy to adjust usage as the language changes in the PDF, and when you are only worried about correct spelling, you don't even need the PDF.

Want one?

What you just described is an index, and people have used those in books for centuries without whinging about it.

Hasbro starwars toy are a flop sales. FFG is one of the best seller for SW products, it would be stupid for Disney to loose this pool of potential customers, adults with (a little) money.

Are Lego star wars doing well?

When a company doesn't own the license, the threat of losing it (or the terms changing, dealgettingworseallthetimelando.gif) is always going to be there, regardless of how well they're doing. Look at FFG's Games Workshop product. Or, more recently, Netrunner. This is not a "flaw in 2.0 concept", it's just an inherent, ongoing risk of being a 3rd party developer.

My personal philosophy with X-Wing is to make hay while the sun shines. I'm going to try and get to as many events as I can, whenever I can.

8 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Me neither. I don't think there will be a place with all the information. What we have seen from the App, it displays costs and name.

Although, making it like that would be a serious d˘ck move. There is simply no reason not to include it... If you wanna milk us hard, just make the cards mandatory on tournaments. No need to make listbuilding 100% more difficult. 

Aren't the cards already mandatory for tournaments? I know a lot of local scenes have a house rules about the use of printed lists and such, but don't the official FFG tournament rules state you have to have all the cards physically on the table?

I personally want to believe that the app will have all the data for every card.

There are discontinued games a lot more complex than this one that are still going strong after many years.

If the game dies and/or they lose the license, just print the costs and upgrades on labels and put them on the sleeves. I might do that anyway.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Me neither. I don't think there will be a place with all the information. What we have seen from the App, it displays costs and name.

Don't worry guys. Here is a screenshot from the app, it has card text in it.

oops double post

37 minutes ago, evcameron said:

Don't worry guys. Here is a screenshot from the app, it has card text in it.

Hm...I think they should put in some way of differentiating between flavor text and game text.

9 hours ago, JJ48 said:

What does that have to do with my response to your previous post? Are you likening your Dictionary 2.0 concept to separating cards from miniatures? Does this mean you're against the concept of miniatures games altogether? Or was your previous question an utter non-sequitur?

My dictionary analogy was more meant to be a response to this notion:

9 hours ago, JJ48 said:

You already have the cards, presumably. Between the cards and the PDF, you therefore have all the information. Why waste ink duplicating information you already have on the cards?

I have all the info, in 2 different places. Like a dictionary split in 2. A single resource that is not complete is, at best annoying, and at worst, useless.

4 hours ago, rawbean said:

What you just described is an index, and people have used those in books for centuries without whinging about it.

Nice try, but not quite.

An index is resource to find a resource, and never meant to convey more information than that. In the same way that a card catalog (anyone?) is not the same as a book.

Maybe a better analogy would be a badly written academic text with lots of endnotes. Except, when you go to look at the endnote, it is an entire complete paragraph of information that requires more than a cursory glance. So you spend the entire time flipping the book between the main text and the lengthy endnotes. Maybe you've never read a book like that, but they exist.

Sure, it conveys the same amount of information, but a better/less lazy writer would have crafted all the information into a smooth, easy to read, complete main text.

6 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I think you're over estimating the draw of 2e. In my area there's a good number of players that have adopted a wait and see attitude.

Yeah, I'd have to say a useful app is going to be critical to my final decision.

48 minutes ago, evcameron said:

Don't worry guys. Here is a screenshot from the app, it has card text in it.

Still, if you can't save and print lists, it loses a ton of value.

1 hour ago, papy72 said:

Aren't the cards already mandatory for tournaments? I know a lot of local scenes have a house rules about the use of printed lists and such, but don't the official FFG tournament rules state you have to have all the cards physically on the table?

I personally want to believe that the app will have all the data for every card.

Not everyone is a tournament player.

Ugh. It's like Godwin's Law for XWM. At some point, a thread will always appeal to the needs of tournament play to justify anything.

10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I have all the info, in 2 different places. Like a dictionary split in 2. A single resource that is not complete is, at best annoying, and at worst, useless.

Actually, this is pretty much how a relational database works. Divide up the tables to minimize updates and duplicated storage. As long as it's easy for me to join, I still fail to see the problem.

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Maybe a better analogy would be a badly written academic text with lots of endnotes. Except, when you go to look at the endnote, it is an entire complete paragraph of information that requires more than a cursory glance. So you spend the entire time flipping the book between the main text and the lengthy endnotes.

So it's not just PDFs that confuse you, but reference material in general.

Generally, when an academic text has such notes in it, it's because they aren't vital to the understanding of the topic, and would unnecessarily muddle things if incorporated into the main text. They move the information to endnotes so that it's still there if people are interested, but won't bother people who aren't.

And hey, maybe the PDFs will have a Verbose printing option. I just hope there's a Non-verbose option for those of us who like things more compact.

if any company loses SW rights its EA not FFG.

FFG is actually making good games for SW. Xwing, Armada, Legion, Destiny, and even all the minor games like Rebellion are epic games, while EA's battlefront is basically banned from the populace's standpoint.

I dont foresee FFG losing the rights until either FFG goes under, something not SW-related happens to sour the ties between FFG and the mouse, or the mouse decides to do their SW games inhouse...for some reason

25 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not everyone is a tournament player.

I understand that. All I'm saying is that the tournament rules make it so that there is no reason to NOT have all card text in the app.

1 hour ago, evcameron said:

Don't worry guys. Here is a screenshot from the app, it has card text in it.

Interesting. Where did you get that?

Just now, papy72 said:

Interesting. Where did you get that?

They had a tablet at gencon demoing the app.

16 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Actually, this is pretty much how a relational database works. Divide up the tables to minimize updates and duplicated storage. As long as it's easy for me to join, I still fail to see the problem.

The electronic union of databases is, of course, more facile. That's why people use computers.

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So it's not just PDFs that confuse you, but reference material in general.

Yeah, it's a miracle I made it through the Veterinary College with my super poor research and academic skills.

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Generally, when an academic text has such notes in it, it's because they aren't vital to the understanding of the topic, and would unnecessarily muddle things if incorporated into the main text. They move the information to endnotes so that it's still there if people are interested, but won't bother people who aren't.

Unless it's just a form of poor writing, which I have seen/read.

IMHO, the PDF in its current form sucks, and I had hoped for better.

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

The electronic union of databases is, of course, more facile. That's why people use computers.

Yep, and that's why there's an app!

In the event that one needs to print out the database, though, doing manual joins isn't all that difficult, especially with only two "tables" (PDFs and Cards).

25 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

In the event that one needs to print out the database, though, doing manual joins isn't all that difficult, especially with only two "tables" (PDFs and Cards).

And it would be even easier if the PDF was a single-source reference.

10 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I for one intend to print out the PDFs if I know I won't have access to the app. Therefore, yes, ink is a concern.

Your whole concern about having a better PDF seems to be centered around ink. Why are you wasting ink printing out an electronic document, anyways??