Disclaimer: I realize that the system is designed to be narrative and that the characters are the heroes and should be easily living to capitalize on the bottom end of multiple Spec Trees.

I recently had an epiphany about how in my early days of playing Pen and Paper there seemed to be a lot more actual danger to the character, and people didn't plan out their characters because there wasn't any guarantee of survival. I tend to dislike the constant progression pressure as it feels like the emphasis is always on the Character/Item progression. 100 XP is just a place you want to get out of so who cares what happens there, I won't be happy until I reach 600 XP.

Anyone run a more dangerous and deadly version of this game? If so, how do you accomplish it?

My players instituted their own rule where if you reach 2x negative wounds you are dead if there are more Dark Side Points facing up than light side points in the Destiny Pool because we all didn't like Fiat-Only death from Wounds. I was thinking that I could make Minions tougher on average, but Minions are not on the chopping block because they can be deadly if used correctly. I'd rather not rely on Disrupter usage and the obsolescence of Blasters to make sure the game is challenging, because I feel like that isn't going to resemble Star Wars enough. So I'm looking for way to have it so that a character who survives to 600 XP has earned it. Even anecdotes on this topic may be helpful. Just looking for how shaping the game toward being more deadly will likely manifest itself.

Make sure your players are on board with a more deadly game, though. I don't really like the thought of a more deadly game. If you would prefer high character turnover, have players retire their characters every so often (say, 100-200 XP) and bring in a new character with the same XP total. Let it be their choice of death or retirement. My players tend to get attached to their characters. And in systems where death is common (Cyberpunk 2020), you don't bother getting attached to your character, which cuts down on role-playing.

I like deadly games. Some of my favorite have been Rolemaster, Cyberpunk 2020, Shadowrun, WFRP(2e), and L5R(3e & 4e). That said, I don't think that this particular system is well suited to ramping up the deadliness. I've made some attempts at increasing the grittiness but, IMO, it takes far too much effort. All of the good "deadly" games I've enjoyed have been far more simulationist that narrative, and I think that may the be heart of the issue.

I guess if you want to drastically increase lethality, try negative wounds equal to wound threshold = death, and don't count brawn toward soak, just armor and enduring.

It really depends what kind of game you want to run. If it's more sandbox-y then PCs might come and go more easily. I prefer story arcs, either my own, or something in service to the PC's aspirations, or ideally both...and that assumes the PCs will be around to see the end result. Since this is Star Wars, in my games any death should have meaning, or at least be epic. I always try to scale so that the PCs are likely to achieve what they're after...but there will also likely be complications, including lopped limbs.

I agree this isn't really the game system to use if you want something more deadly. Sure it's difficult initially to kill a PC, but a few crits and a vicious weapon later, a dying PC is pretty easy to come by. The main problem is it's far more difficult to scale this game than others. D&D can be as deadly as you want, but you can decide ahead of time with reasonable surety how deadly it will be. With EotE, even stormtroopers can have a great day.

30 minutes ago, whafrog said:

The main problem is it's far more difficult to scale this game than others.

This is especially noticeable in starship combat. It's very easy to get your ship completely blown out from under you when only a turn ago you were doing just fine.

6 hours ago, Edgookin said:

Make sure your players are on board with a more deadly game, though. I don't really like the thought of a more deadly game. If you would prefer high character turnover, have players retire their characters every so often (say, 100-200 XP) and bring in a new character with the same XP total. Let it be their choice of death or retirement. My players tend to get attached to their characters. And in systems where death is common (Cyberpunk 2020), you don't bother getting attached to your character, which cuts down on role-playing.

Yes we decided to try this and it was actually one of the players who spearheaded the decision. I was doing exactly what you suggested be fore so in order to have a contrast it is gonna be death as the ticket out. I think you are correct about the attachment and I think that over time games have been doing more and more to promote that aspect without considering the downside, which is namely that the game becomes like a video game where you finish the game with character you started the game with, unless you quit.

I think there is a difference between being able to have the viewpoint of the character and being attached to the character to the point where you can't stand to lose it. Call of Cthulhu and Cyberpunk have the aspect of real danger, not the sort of implied but not realized danger you often see when things are really fudgy or narrative.

I used to love playing games and running games with higher level characters, but I think nowadays it feels like everyone is planning their build like survival is a foregone conclusion. As a player I try to not do that and just focus on what the character is doing and going through in the moment, and a new talent is just a secondary effect of progression. I realized though, if survival has to be achieved, then those boxes are hard won and deserved.

So, a few suggestions, starting with the important one.

1. Make sure players have thought about their next character. Losing a character you've become attached to is much easier if you have a plan for the next one.

2. Make sure there are plenty of risks around and you are playing in interesting places. Sometimes the environment should be upgrading difficulty of checks without flipping destiny points, if there is a clear and obvious danger. Eg Vacuum, deep falls, poison atmosphere, etc. Despairs and Double Triumphs can always destroy or damage critical equipment (Breathers etc) not just do crits. The use of increased environmental risk means you are making things more dangerous in an epic way rather than a mundane one. Tweak it up to taste, and probably still avoid instant death without double despairs.

3. There is no minimum time to recover from Crits when healed, which can make them road bumps with a skilled healer. Add a minimum time to recover to the point that you are no longer affected (one day per difficulty, 8 hours per difficulty in Bacta?). Up to you if it stops effects other than the +10 to next crit straight away or after that time, but means that you won't always be crit free shortly after an encounter.

4. Time pressure, follows from the above, without time to rest, heal and recover (and reset stimpack counter) you'll not be facing things at full strength.

The games I run have been pretty deadly to my table's PC's. When they decide to do something that will bring retaliation, I don't usually hold back just so they can keep going. They tried to invade a star destroyer to rescue a capture PC, so they had a running firefight with the stormtroopers and one of the PC's died. Once you get to higher xp it is harder, but they have to worry about it a bit at lower amounts. Luckily my table is very story driven, and doesn't mind potentially deadly consequences if it is 'in character' for them to do.

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:39 AM, Darzil said:

So, a few suggestions, starting with the important one.

1. Make sure players have thought about their next character. Losing a character you've become attached to is much easier if you have a plan for the next one.

2. Make sure there are plenty of risks around and you are playing in interesting places. Sometimes the environment should be upgrading difficulty of checks without flipping destiny points, if there is a clear and obvious danger. Eg Vacuum, deep falls, poison atmosphere, etc. Despairs and Double Triumphs can always destroy or damage critical equipment (Breathers etc) not just do crits. The use of increased environmental risk means you are making things more dangerous in an epic way rather than a mundane one. Tweak it up to taste, and probably still avoid instant death without double despairs.

3. There is no minimum time to recover from Crits when healed, which can make them road bumps with a skilled healer. Add a minimum time to recover to the point that you are no longer affected (one day per difficulty, 8 hours per difficulty in Bacta?). Up to you if it stops effects other than the +10 to next crit straight away or after that time, but means that you won't always be crit free shortly after an encounter.

4. Time pressure, follows from the above, without time to rest, heal and recover (and reset stimpack counter) you'll not be facing things at full strength.

Awesome, all of it. Thank you.

The most recent session didn't kill any PC's but they were fully aware it could happen and were more engaged and excited both by what I saw and what the players said after the game. This is working out really well so far but the test will be when someone bites it. As Darzil has suggested back up characters should be made, and I'll get them on that.

You don’t necessarily need them made, just thought about so that you are looking forward to the change rather than missing the old character when death happens.