Horton's new ability is a pain to list build around, but I do really like that he seems to synergise very nicely with Intimidation Arvel.

Two Battle of Endor squadron leaders working well together is something I like. Arvel wants to be at range 0 of a target, and doing so with Intimadation means that Horton is getting a shot against that target with a free single die re-roll and against reduced agility. He also potentially gets to double tap. Question is, what to fill the rest of the list with?

The way I see it, the more ships you can get to range 1 the better, but you also need something that can put out some damage. What's cheap enough to get two of, but also give you decent options for damage? Well...

Arvel Crynyd [36]

- Intimidation [3]

Total - 39

Horton Salm [38]

- Expert Handling [3]

- Ion Cannon Turret [6]

- Veteran Turret Gunner [8]

- R4 Astromech [2]

- Proton Bombs [5]

Total - 61

Gray Squadron Bomber x2 [32]

- Dorsal Turret [4]

- R3 Astromech [3]

- Adv Proton Torpedoes [6]

- Proton Bombs [5]

Total - 50 x 2 = 100

Total 200 points

I'm not sure whether Grays or Golds are optimum here. I can't work out whether slightly higher initiative and a talent slot is worth losing some of the tools in this kit. I could drop the bombs all round to upgrade to Golds with ICTs instead of Dorsals and Expert Handling all round.

But I feel like bombs could be very useful if the aim is to get them in close at range 1. I can't double tap with the generics, so turrets out the sides and bombs in the rear gives them very good coverage. Bombs also make sense when you're hopefully chucking out enough ion the turn before to make the bombs unavoidable.

Horton is currently in my brawlers list:

Eh...wouldn't bank on Ys if you want "brawlers", especially not low Initiative target locks for one-shot, range-one-only torps

At 50 a pop, you could get Xwings instead. Thane is 48, predator Kullbe is 50 (and he can easily close foils boost + linked focus --> open foils at range 1, since his ability and linked focus occur simultaneously)

Biggs is also 48 for the Initiative match with Kullbe and Arvel, and he's ESSENTIAL for keeping your squishy Y alive

Three Phoenix A-wings comes to mind. They make great blockers. Or just one A-wing with more points dumped into something tougher. Add Wedge for the Endor fighter leader trifecta. The other option is to build out Lando Falcon Endor-style.

I have to say that themed lists have never been more fun to build - they're still effective! My themed lists in 1E were tough to play, but still fun. Now I can have my cake and eat it too.

18 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Eh...wouldn't bank on Ys if you want "brawlers", especially not low Initiative target locks for one-shot, range-one-only torps

I mean, that is all true. I think R3 mitigates some of the target lock issue as you don't have to pursue a specific target after getting the lock at range 3 then moving to range 1. But yes, it's the age old problem of low initiative ships and target locks. I was kind of hoping that's where Arvel bumping would be useful, and why I put bombs and turrets on them to discourage my opponent just going straight past me.

18 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

At 50 a pop, you could get Xwings instead. Thane is 48, predator Kullbe is 50 (and he can easily close foils boost + linked focus --> open foils at range 1, since his ability and linked focus occur simultaneously)

But that seems an odd replacement suggestion to me.

I know that X-Wings have made significant positioning gains with native barrel roll and S-foils boost, but they still have essentially the same dial as the Y-Wing. At I3, what makes Kullbee significantly better at range 1 brawling than the Y-Wings? Is it just his access to boost without the penalty of lowered attack? The option for T-rolls?

Also, Kullbee is 48. I'm assuming you've just stapled R4 to him, because that's what I would do.

If you're suggesting Y-Wings can't hack it as close range brawlers, then wouldn't Blue Squad B-Wings be a better replacement? HLC and FCS makes them 49, and they have access to the 1 hards and 1 t-rolls. Adv Sensors and nothing else is 50, and gets them modded 4 dice attacks at range 1 even after a red 1 hard.

18 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Biggs is also 48 for the Initiative match with Kullbe and Arvel, and he's ESSENTIAL for keeping your squishy Y alive

I can definitely get on board with this. I feel like the rework to torpedoes and astromechs means Biggs can actually be useful as something other than a damage sponge now, and as a result is worth investing some points in, but I can still see the value in running him naked in his traditional bodyguard role.

18 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

Ten 50 (Debris Gambit 2, AdSen 8, Proton Torps 9)

Heff 45 (Pivot 0, Intimidation 3, Zeb 1, Chopper 2, TacScram 2 , AdSen 8)

Horton 38 (Expert Handling 2, ICT 6, VetTurGun 8, Proton Bombs 5, Proton Torps 9)

Total 198

With Heff blocking and Ten pulling real tight reds, they stay at range 1 quite consistently to feed Horton rerolled double taps!

The U-Wing's an interesting shout. That Heff build looks pretty fun, and I guess it's easier to block with the medium base over the small.

I love Ten, too. And that's basically how I've been planning to build him, though for this list I'd probably want to run Adv Torps and Elusive. Now that Ten's ability requires eye results, I feel like the more dice you can roll the better. And I want him to be at range 1 as soon as possible, without messing around with range 3 torps.

Are the Horton double taps that easy to pull off? The torps are an interesting shout. I like the range 3 option.

I can't help but feel him and Ten are just a bit overstacked in points here, though. Maybe that's just 1e thinking, but filling every slot with expensive upgrades was so rarely worth it over squeezing an extra ship in that I'm still wary.

16 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Add Wedge for the Endor fighter leader trifecta.

This is actually where the list started.

I wanted to see if I could run all the squadron leaders. Lando doesn't fit, and we don't actually have a B-Wing squadron leader in the game (Braylen was Blade 2 at Endor, not Blade Leader). But I did have Wedge, Horton, Arvel and Ten all in a list. Unfortunately, they were all just too lean. Horton had barely anything on him and Ten was undercooked.

On the flip side, Wedge, Horton and Arvel just doesn't fill the points, but I didn't find a Phoenix blocker that appealing as an option. It just felt a bit tacked on. I suppose another Green Squad Intimidation A-Wing wouldn't be the worst. It doesn't get its own shot, like Arvel, but it does double up Wedge's ability and it helps Horton's low attack value. Leaves me enough points to take R2 on Wedge, Ion Missiles on Arvel for a hopeful range 3 ion and 3 points that could either go on Seismics or Hull Upgrade for Horton, but no bid.

@ficklegreendice what do you think? It gets the X-Wing brawler in there you were talking about, albeit more expensively, but it's without Biggs and I worry the total attacking strength might be a little low.

16 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I have to say that themed lists have never been more fun to build - they're still effective! My themed lists in 1E were tough to play, but still fun. Now I can have my cake and eat it too.

Yeah, this is exactly where I'm at too.

I'm having a blast trying to come with themed lists because they actually seem properly viable. There's a lot of subtle little interactions (like Arvel and Horton) that seem purposefully designed to encourage strong synergy in themes.

The only problem is that a potentially semi-competitive list needs a fair bit of fine tuning to get the upgrades properly balanced, and that's the issue I'm having here. I like Horton and Arvel together a lot (I really like Arvel in 2e as it is, he's got one very specific role now, but he's going to do it brilliantly and cheaply), but working out what Horton needs on him and around him to work is hard.

This would be so much easier if I was trying to build a list around Dutch....

R4 Kullbe only gives you two turns. Unnecessary

X dial is still far superior to Y. More greens, more 180s

They can shoot at range 3 without being useless and are far superior in the later stages of the game

Fcs doesn't work like it used to. It's pretty bad without access to additional mods or long range scanner effects

Would def go Biggs and Thane/Kullbe with predator and not look back

Personally prefer Thanes Initiative and ability

Norra is a good wingman for Horton also. She will want to be at R1 from the enemy.

With the turret pointed forward, I've found Horton's double tap easy to get!

I originally had the torps in to provide some early game coverage, but I was doing some thinking yesterday and am now planning on dropping them and Heff for Intimidation Arvel and Predator Jake. 4 ships makes it easier to proc Horton, Ten had his "focus" and TL, Horton has 2 rerolled, one focused shot, Arvel has TL and Focus thanks to Jake, and Jake has reroll/focus. Early game range control might be tough, but if I can get in close, and fast, I think it'll be a HOOT.

And SUPER thematic!