4 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

While I was originally being hyperbolic with my post, the more I think about it the less ridiculous ranking THS over TLJ seems. THS is one of those movies that's so bad it's funny. TLJ didn't hit that mark for me it was more of a bad in a sad and disheartening way. I say disheartening because THS never made me leery of the future of Star Wars the way TLJ does largely because like you said it's not canon. I can ignore it and pretend it was all Luke Skywalker's bad dream. I can't do that with TLJ no matter how much I wish I could because it is canon. While TLJ is certainly the more visually stunning of the two that's just not quite enough to edge it past THS for me. Ultimately my decision as to which of these two movies was the most pants on head exceptional had to come down to which one had the best drinking scene and I prefered THS.

What I think will be telling is if Disney, or rather Lucasfilm ends up continuing to tell stories in the ST era or if they will go back to an earlier era or create a new one for their upcoming films.

2 hours ago, Doppelganger said:

I'd say even with some hardcore fans. I fall somewhere in between and besides Rogue One none of the new books, films nor rebels has done anything for me. I am flatly not going to watch Ep.9 in cinemas. When I read about this I immediately didn't want the show even though I knew nothing about it.

Did you read Lost Stars or the new Thrawn books? I found those enjoyable.

9 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Did you read Lost Stars or the new Thrawn books? I found those enjoyable.

Have to second both of these. Quite good.

10 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

What I think will be telling is if Disney, or rather Lucasfilm ends up continuing to tell stories in the ST era or if they will go back to an earlier era or create a new one for their upcoming films.

Did you read Lost Stars or the new Thrawn books? I found those enjoyable.

It will be interesting to see which era of Star Wars they go with after they wrap up episode 9.

I also liked Lost Stars and I loved Thrawn. Haven't had a chance to read the sequel to it yet though.

5 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

TLJ didn't hit that mark for me it was more of a bad in a sad and disheartening way. I say disheartening because THS never made me leery of the future of Star Wars the way TLJ does largely because like you said it's not canon. I can ignore it and pretend it was all Luke Skywalker's bad dream. I can't do that with TLJ no matter how much I wish I could because it is canon.

I feel you on this, more of the overall emotional point of the tlj. I liked it though, yes I thought the plot was too driven by blinding incopeteance. I will believe that in the movie, because Ive seen some blinding incopeteance in real life. I thought that was just too on point if how things would go sideways for the protagonists.

To the original point of the thread, I’m as yet uninterested in the new series. Disney’s handling of Star Wars has been bipolar in my opinion. Rogue One was pretty decent, and Rebels was more good than not starting near the end of Season One. Episode VII was a cheap clone of a movie I already have seen, but with some new characters who had potential. Episode VIII followed up the storylines of the Force using characters from VII well, but the rest of the story seemed written just to drag itself out and keep the rest of the characters occupied long enough for Rey and Luke to save them.

I haven’t mustered the interest to see Solo.

It feels too much like the overdone Marvel movies, to me. “Cash cow- must milk...” I liked Iron Man and Thor. But Marvel movies are coming out in such quantities and so intertwined with each other that I’ve lost interest.

Obligatory "Star Wars fans will complain about anything" post.



Jokes aside, I really don't feel the fatigue.

I've been discussing with people the reasoning behind the divide in SW fans when it comes to TLJ, and while I may tease those who say they didn't like it, unless they spout one of the dumb lines about "black Han" or "Mary Sue Rey" or how "SJWs ruined star wars" I tend to respect that the difference between enjoying and hating the film seems to be entirely related how different life experiences shaped each person.

It's an interesting study so far.

At first, my hypothesis was that the divide had something to do with political affiliation, the spouting of "SJWs" from select members of the "hate it" side had me thinking that perhaps those of the extreme right were opposed due to some of the themes and characters. Though upon further investigation, I found that even a few of those that identify with the far right still seemed to enjoy the film. While I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a small faction of the "hate it" side that is comprised of these individuals I don't believe they make up a significant portion, as their claims can be easily dismissed with real world logic, or canon explanations.

My second hypothesis, and current theory, is that life experiences determine the positive or negative perception of the film. I've found that many people (I understand this is a wide generalization) that have suffered a severe loss, or those stuck in a perpetual state of loss -people with a more cynical perspective- tend to enjoy the film. While others who live fulfilled lives, those who make their own paths, don't take no for answer -people who are not deterred or unsatisfied with life- find the film distasteful.

To be fair, the data that I've collected about this is so limited there's no way I could claim any of this is true. At best I have some minor data points and hyperbole.



Either way, I'm not sure if it's necessarily fatigue yet. I think they've just made some bad choices for movie selection.

39 minutes ago, MarekMandalore said:

I haven’t mustered the interest to see Solo.

It feels too much like the overdone Marvel movies, to me. “Cash cow- must milk...” I liked Iron Man and Thor. But Marvel movies are coming out in such quantities and so intertwined with each other that I’ve lost interest.

Solo wasn't really bad aside from L3 being annoying, it just suffered from being rather boring, at least that was my reaction to it. As for Marvel, I actually kind of like them being interwined with each other, makes it feel like a really expensive TV show/comic/serial that builds ontop of itself over time. They aren't the best films to grace the screen but I find them fun.

19 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Obligatory "Star Wars fans will complain about anything" post.

Jokes aside, I really don't feel the fatigue.

I've been discussing with people the reasoning behind the divide in SW fans when it comes to TLJ, and while I may tease those who say they didn't like it, unless they spout one of the dumb lines about "black Han" or "Mary Sue Rey" or how "SJWs ruined star wars" I tend to respect that the difference between enjoying and hating the film seems to be entirely related how different life experiences shaped each person.

It's an interesting study so far.

At first, my hypothesis was that the divide had something to do with political affiliation, the spouting of "SJWs" from select members of the "hate it" side had me thinking that perhaps those of the extreme right were opposed due to some of the themes and characters. Though upon further investigation, I found that even a few of those that identify with the far right still seemed to enjoy the film. While I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a small faction of the "hate it" side that is comprised of these individuals I don't believe they make up a significant portion, as their claims can be easily dismissed with real world logic, or canon explanations.

My second hypothesis, and current theory, is that life experiences determine the positive or negative perception of the film. I've found that many people (I understand this is a wide generalization) that have suffered a severe loss, or those stuck in a perpetual state of loss -people with a more cynical perspective- tend to enjoy the film. While others who live fulfilled lives, those who make their own paths, don't take no for answer -people who are not deterred or unsatisfied with life- find the film distasteful.

To be fair, the data that I've collected about this is so limited there's no way I could claim any of this is true. At best I have some minor data points and hyperbole.


Either way, I'm not sure if it's necessarily fatigue yet. I think they've just made some bad choices for movie selection.

Isn't is MaRey Sue? I thought that is what people were calling her, I'm personally at the point of holding my opinion on if she is or isn't until after episode 9.

As for additional reasons people might not like the ST era is that there is little in the way or world building, few if any of the original aliens show up, a retread of the Evil Empire vs Small Band of Rebels and that the characters that a good generation or two of kids looked up to have become failures. Han, leaves Leia and becomes a poor smuggler. Luke, screws up and instead of trying to fix the issue just runs and lets the galaxy suffer for it only wanting to die. Leia, kicked out of the senate and everything she worked for fell apart. And aside from them the legacy characters are either killed off like Ackbar and likely Wedge, or relegated hard into the background like Chewie, R2, and 3PO. R2 is the most notable one since Star Wars is supposed to be the story he is telling someone so as far as the ST goes he doesn't even really see or do anything.

I personally wish we had gotten an inverse of the OT era with the New Republic having to deal with the FO or some force as an insurgent group that is going around causing havoc, or even having it be where it is TNG like and the Empire is smaller but now allied with the New Republic or the like and deals with people having to get over old grudges and come to work together to defeat some greater foe or something that threatens to send the galaxy back into chaos once again.

It also doesn't help that the films feel like they are being pushed out quickly and could easily take an extra year for each film to allow for better scripts, and not running into the production nightmare that was Solo and the ballooned budget of them having to reshoot near an entire film and do all the CG for the flick in what amounts to a month or two before release.

20 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I've been discussing with people the reasoning behind the divide in SW fans when it comes to TLJ, and while I may tease those who say they didn't like it, unless they spout one of the dumb lines about "black Han" or "Mary Sue Rey" or how "SJWs ruined star wars" I tend to respect that the difference between enjoying and hating the film seems to be entirely related how different life experiences shaped each person.

It's an interesting study so far.

At first, my hypothesis was that the divide had something to do with political affiliation, the spouting of "SJWs" from select members of the "hate it" side had me thinking that perhaps those of the extreme right were opposed due to some of the themes and characters. Though upon further investigation, I found that even a few of those that identify with the far right still seemed to enjoy the film. While I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a small faction of the "hate it" side that is comprised of these individuals I don't believe they make up a significant portion, as their claims can be easily dismissed with real world logic, or canon explanations.

My second hypothesis, and current theory, is that life experiences determine the positive or negative perception of the film. I've found that many people (I understand this is a wide generalization) that have suffered a severe loss, or those stuck in a perpetual state of loss -people with a more cynical perspective- tend to enjoy the film. While others who live fulfilled lives, those who make their own paths, don't take no for answer -people who are not deterred or unsatisfied with life- find the film distasteful.

To be fair, the data that I've collected about this is so limited there's no way I could claim any of this is true. At best I have some minor data points and hyperbole.



Either way, I'm not sure if it's necessarily fatigue yet. I think they've just made some bad choices for movie selection.

I've never really accepted the "It's an SJW movie" complaints. Most of those that I've heard personally come from people with little to no interest in Star Wars to begin with and like you said their arguments are easily dismissed. Despite my anti-SJW leanings I just don't see a blatant idpol message from the sequels. I've heard plenty of people complaining about everything you listed but they've never made much sense to me. It always sounded more like people forcing something to be there that isn't just so they can feel outraged. My biggest gripe with TLJ was just way too much blinding incompetence like @Noosh said. I mean within two minutes I was going "why the f*** would any idiot put this moron in charge of an Imperial fleet?" and shortly thereafter going "why the f*** would any idiot put this moron in charge of a Resistance fleet?" Followed by a lot more WTF moments throughout the whole movie. I will say Rey is a Mary Sue but so were farmboy Luke and Little Orphan Anakin. I feel like it's definitely not political divide, although I don't doubt that motivates a very small but vocal portion of the dissenters. I know many people that I don't agree with politically that hate it and people that I do politically align with who loved it.

I've never heard a hypothesis quite like your second one before. It seems pretty sound in my opinion.

2 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

She's not. Her powers were not magically summoned out of thin air. They actually wrote a very interesting part in the novelization of The Last Jedi explaining why Rey, who had no prior training could use the force.

They take the reader back to episode VII. If you remember the movie, Rey never used force powers until after the scene where Kylo forced himself into her mind. It was clear from her piloting ability that she was force sensitive (much like seen in A New Hope with Luke and Phantom Menace with Anakin) but clearly she was untrained.

"Kylo had rummaged through these hopes and fears, things he had no right to. But as he searched, something had changed. Even as he callously rifled through her mind, he had somehow revealed his own. Rey found herself in his mind even as he invaded hers. She felt his rage, like a ruinous storm that filled his head, and his hatred, and his lust to dominate and humiliate those who had wronged him. But she also felt his hurt, and his loneliness. And his fear-That he would never prove as strong as Darth Vader, the ghost who haunted his dreams.

Kylo had retreated at finding Rey in his head- had practically fled from her. But that had not been the end of that strange, sudden connection. She had seen more-far more. Somehow, almost instinctually, she knew how he accessed some of the powers at his command-even through she didn't understand them. It was as if his training had become hers, unlocking and flinging open door after door in her mind.

But now Rey couldn't shut those doors-and she feared what had been set loose."

Kylo, being only partially trained himself clearly made a mistake while using this ability. He opened a door between their minds and she was able (well, forced really) to imprint some of what he knew.

[/spoiler]

Much like when the OT released, the world building is done over time and more outside of the movies than in. Give it time. Fans have been viewing the sequels with eyes of a full galaxy, but they chose an era this far away to fill in new lore, they just need time to get it on paper. A great example comes from the movie novelizations, and the stories written into the new Battlefront campaign.

I don't see this at all. The First Order isn't the Empire. Similar tech, Similar command structure, similar ships. That's about it. How they rose to power, their methods, their leadership, and the level of power they wield are all very different. I think a lot of people miss the value in what this story has to tell.

The resistance wasn't the rebellion either. No one wanted to believe that the First Order was a threat because from the outside the imperial remnant looked defeated. Leia wasn't a failure, she was the only reason there was even a resistance there to fight back when the FO struck. Mon Mothma was a faulire, as her New Republic refused to believe the FO was a threat, but Leia? No. As for Han, they said it pretty clear in the movie, he went back to what he was good at.... If you wanna pretend that people weren't always chasing Han for smuggling shenanigans then go ahead and forget that Han's entry into the series started with him trying to make up for a lost shipment . Again, not a failure, just doing what he do. Finally Luke. I don't think it's fair to judge Luke strictly on his actions from TLJ, even though again, I think Luke showed by the end of the film he was THE MOST JEDI-Jedi of all time, by finally practicing what the Jedi had been preaching for centuries. Luke has always reacted poorly, he's always been flawed. People looked up to him, sure, but to say he was a shining example of a hero is laughable at best. He abandoned his training, failed his mission to rescue his friends, was defeated by Vader, worse yet, after he returned to face Vader again, nearly turned to the darkside at the implication of turning Leia... Fast forward to Last Jedi, his legacy of overreacting had continued... he overreacted with Ben, causing Kylo to happen... and overreacted to Kylo by retreating to let the Jedi die as to prevent it from happening again... but by the end of the film, he learned to overcome, like he always had, and found THE most passive way to use the force. Grand Master Luke, the ultimate Jedi He also passed the buck to a young capable student.

Just saying... none of the character's have been revealed as failures...

I can't help you here, everyone had a fan theory and what they wanted to see. The fact that they took us down a path where we see what happens when legends get old, I love it. Everyone gets old.

My only issue with the movie time is in universe. I really don't like that EP VII and VII were SO close. They may as well have been one film...

I hate when they leave key information out of the movies. It really doesn't help the argument that she's not a Mary Sue if it's something that the general audience won't know in my opinion. The consumers of novelizations of movies is a pretty niche group of readers isn't it?

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

Isn't is MaRey Sue? I thought that is what people were calling her, I'm personally at the point of holding my opinion on if she is or isn't until after episode 9. 

She's not. Her powers were not magically summoned out of thin air. They actually wrote a very interesting part in the novelization of The Last Jedi explaining why Rey, who had no prior training could use the force.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

As for additional reasons people might not like the ST era is that there is little in the way or world building 

Much like when the OT released, the world building is done over time and more outside of the movies than in. Give it time. Fans have been viewing the sequels with eyes of a full galaxy, but they chose an era this far away to fill in new lore, they just need time to get it on paper. A great example comes from the movie novelizations, and the stories written into the new Battlefront campaign.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

a retread of the Evil Empire vs Small Band of Rebels and that the characters that a good generation or two of kids looked up to have become failures  .  Han, leaves Leia and becomes a poor smuggler. Luke, screws up and instead of trying to fix the issue just runs and lets the galaxy suffer for it only wanting to die. Leia, kicked out of the senate and everything she worked for fell apar  t. And aside from them the legacy characters are either killed off like Ackbar and likely Wedge, or relegated hard into the background like Chewie, R2, and 3PO. R2 is the most notable one since Star Wars is supposed to be the story he is telling someone so as far as the ST goes he doesn't even really see or do anything. 

I don't see this at all. The First Order isn't the Empire. Similar tech, Similar command structure, similar ships. That's about it. How they rose to power, their methods, their leadership, and the level of power they wield are all very different. I think a lot of people miss the value in what this story has to tell.

The resistance wasn't the rebellion either. No one wanted to believe that the First Order was a threat because from the outside the imperial remnant looked defeated. Leia wasn't a failure, she was the only reason there was even a resistance there to fight back when the FO struck. Mon Mothma was a faulire, as her New Republic refused to believe the FO was a threat, but Leia? No. As for Han, they said it pretty clear in the movie, he went back to what he was good at.... If you wanna pretend that people weren't always chasing Han for smuggling shenanigans then go ahead and forget that Han's entry into the series started with him trying to make up for a lost shipment . Again, not a failure, just doing what he do. Finally Luke. I don't think it's fair to judge Luke strictly on his actions from TLJ, even though again, I think Luke showed by the end of the film he was THE MOST JEDI-Jedi of all time, by finally practicing what the Jedi had been preaching for centuries. Luke has always reacted poorly, he's always been flawed. People looked up to him, sure, but to say he was a shining example of a hero is laughable at best. He abandoned his training, failed his mission to rescue his friends, was defeated by Vader, worse yet, after he returned to face Vader again, nearly turned to the darkside at the implication of turning Leia... Fast forward to Last Jedi, his legacy of overreacting had continued... he overreacted with Ben, causing Kylo to happen... and overreacted to Kylo by retreating to let the Jedi die as to prevent it from happening again... but by the end of the film, he learned to overcome, like he always had, and found THE most passive way to use the force. Grand Master Luke, the ultimate Jedi He also passed the buck to a young capable student.

Just saying... none of the character's have been revealed as failures...

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

I personally wish we had gotten an inverse of the OT era with the New Republic having to deal with the FO or some force as an insurgent group that is going around causing havoc, or even having it be where it is TNG like and the Empire is smaller but now allied with the New Republic or the like and deals with people having to get over old grudges and come to work together to defeat some greater foe or something that threatens to send the galaxy back into chaos once again.

It also doesn't help that the films feel like they are being pushed out quickly and could easily take an extra year for each film to allow for better scripts, and not running into the production nightmare that was Solo and the ballooned budget of them having to reshoot near an entire film and do all the CG for the flick in what amounts to a month or two before release. 

I can't help you here, everyone had a fan theory and what they wanted to see. The fact that they took us down a path where we see what happens when legends get old, I love it. Everyone gets old.

My only issue with the movie time is in universe. I really don't like that EP VII and VIII were SO close. They may as well have been one film...

7 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

I hate when they leave key information out of the movies.

I mean, it depends on what you mean key. An observant person could draw this from the clues given to us in the film.... She used a Jedi mind trick... Called a lightsaber to her... and tapped into the force while fighting...

It's pretty obvious she got those powers somewhere, and looking back at the film, I'm downright gobblestomped I missed it because she straight up READ his mind in that scene.

I don't think it was left out, it was just too subtle for most people... and sadly, looking back, it wasn't even that subtle. I'm just an idiot lol

6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I mean, it depends on what you mean key. An observant person could draw this from the clues given to us in the film.... She used a Jedi mind trick... Called a lightsaber to her... and tapped into the force while fighting...

It's pretty obvious she got those powers somewhere, and looking back at the firm, I'm downright gobblestomped I missed it because she straight up READ his mind in that scene.

I don't think it was left it, it was just too subtle for most people... and sadly, looking back, it wasn't even that subtle. I'm just an idiot lol

Key is probably the wrong word. Affecting or impacting would probably have been a better choice. I most definitely can't claim to be the most observant person. I've only seen it twice, once at release, and then when it hit Netflix. The second watching was me hoping that maybe I had judged it too harshly. Maybe it would be better. After re-watching, I thought it was worse. In my opinion if you're going to have to watch something multiple times to get a hint of the real story then it's not pretty obvious, it's too d*** subtle. I'll never be able to equate demonstrating padawan level skills with the ability to beat down a Jedi Master like Luke or a room full of elite guards. It would be different if they had established her as someone that, while untrained, had been utilizing the force to survive on her own for a while now. I think if your audience doesn't get the message then the way they chose to deliver the message failed, not the audience.

14 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

She's not. Her powers were not magically summoned out of thin air. They actually wrote a very interesting part in the novelization of The Last Jedi explaining why Rey, who had no prior training could use the force.

Like I said, I'm holding my opinion on her, I was just asking if MaRey Sue was what people were calling her. As for the spoiler, I like characters who work and build up their strength not download it.

18 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Much like when the OT released, the world building is done over time and more outside of the movies than in. Give it time. Fans have been viewing the sequels with eyes of a full galaxy, but they chose an era this far away to fill in new lore, they just need time to get it on paper. A great example comes from the movie novelizations, and the stories written into the new Battlefront campaign.

The OT had the luxury of building the world, the ST has to continue from there but they fail to tell us in the films, anything about the New Republic or the size of the First Order, let alone how Snoke came to power and the like. Part of the New Republic thing would have helped had they not cut the scenes involving it. But, from the content around TFA and leading up to TLJ it seemed more and more like the FO is a small radical group which is wiped away to be a large force capable of taking over the galaxy in the span of a week, which just makes the New Republic look really incompetent. And that seems to be a running theme with the ST era films, the FO is incompetent, the New Republic is incompetent, and the Resistance is incompetent.

23 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I don't see this at all. The First Order isn't the Empire. Similar tech, Similar command structure, similar ships. That's about it. How they rose to power, their methods, their leadership, and the level of power they wield are all very different. I think a lot of people miss the value in what this story has to tell.

The First Order just took over the entire galaxy, with Kylo as its emperor, sorta sounds like a large galactic empire to me, while a small band of rebels try to fight against them, one so small now that it can in its entirety fit in the Falcon. TFA and TLJ set the galaxy more or less back to the OT era's setting of a large monolithic force that is opposed by the small band of freedom fighters.

25 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

The resistance wasn't the rebellion either. No one wanted to believe that the First Order was a threat because from the outside the imperial remnant looked defeated. Leia wasn't a failure, she was the only reason there was even a resistance there to fight back when the FO struck. Mon Mothma was a faulire, as her New Republic refused to believe the FO was a threat, but Leia? No. As for Han, they said it pretty clear in the movie, he went back to what he was good at.... If you wanna pretend that people weren't always chasing Han for smuggling shenanigans then go ahead and forget that Han's entry into the series started with him trying to make up for a lost shipment . Again, not a failure, just doing what he do. Finally Luke. I don't think it's fair to judge Luke strictly on his actions from TLJ, even though again, I think Luke showed by the end of the film he was THE MOST JEDI-Jedi of all time, by finally practicing what the Jedi had been preaching for centuries. Luke has always reacted poorly, he's always been flawed. People looked up to him, sure, but to say he was a shining example of a hero is laughable at best. He abandoned his training, failed his mission to rescue his friends, was defeat  ed by Vader, worse yet, after he returned to face Vader again, nearly turned to the darkside at the implication of turning Leia... Fast forward to Last Jedi, his legacy of overreacting had continued... he overreacted with Ben, causing Kylo to happen... and overreacted to Kylo by retreating to let the Jedi die as to prevent it from happening again... but by the end of the film, he learned to overcome, like he always had, and found THE most passive way to use the force. Grand Master Luke, the ultimate Jedi He also passed the buck to a young capable student.

Just saying... none of the character's have been revealed as failures...

Leia is the one least affected of the main three, but she fought to build the New Republic and it still all goes to crap despite her best efforts. Han grew to be more than just a smuggler, but ends up leaving his wife and ends up in a similar to worse place than he was in ANH. And Luke did fail, but at the same point he learned from his lessons before and after 30 years of growth you think he'd be wiser but nope straight up in the moment tries to kill his nephew rather than talk it out first. But even then if we accept Luke would do that he saw the dark path Kylo was going down, but instead of warning anyone or like with his father trying to bring Kylo back he instead just runs away to die.

Say what people may about the old EU but I prefer the idea of Han and Leia actually working together and maintaining a relationship and helping the New Republic while Luke goes on to be a Grand Master and create a Jedi Order that tried to learn from its past. There is lots of crap in the old EU, but in a number of ways it was more hopeful for their futures to an extent.

And, with Han dying in TFA, and Ackbar and Luke dying in TLJ I can't help but feel that the ST is really heavy on killing all the old characters. I doubt Leia would be killed in 9 due to a lack of footage and being in bad taste considering Carrie's passing but I do get the strong feeling that Lando will end up being there to die.

33 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

My only issue with the movie time is in universe. I really don't like that EP VII and VIII were SO close. They may as well have been one film...

Got to agree with you there, it also makes the galaxy have one heck of a bad week where they kill off a lot of the OT cast, and the New Republic, while a reborn empire takes its place and yet no one seems to care based off how no one came to help them on Crait. Besides, separating TFA and TLJ by a couple years or the like would have at least helped make it believable that Rey trained to get her abilities and earned them rather than being given it without having to work for it.

1 minute ago, Megatronrex said:

think if your audience doesn't get the message then the way they chose to deliver the message failed, not the audience.

Eh maybe a bit of both. We also have to take into account her connection to the force, which unlike the PT hasn't really been measured. All we know is she scares Luke, and could beat Kylo after he had taken damage. It's vague, but I get the feeling this chick is at least Equal to kylo in her connection to the force, if not greater.

I don't know how far you've read into the Eu, but that connection matters more than the training. The Bane books made that pretty clear.

@Megatronrex all that incopeteance on both sides sold it to me (mostly because I'm a jaded cynic) I see bad decisions blow up all the time.

Just now, Darth Sanguis said:

Eh maybe a bit of both. We also have to take into account her connection to the force, which unlike the PT hasn't really been measured. All we know is she scares Luke, and could beat Kylo after he had taken damage. It's vague, but I get the feeling this chick is at least Equal to kylo in her connection to the force, if not greater.

I don't know how far you've read into the Eu, but that connection matters more than the training. The Bane books made that pretty clear.

I'm not disputing the strength of her connection to the force. I think she absolutely has a stronger connection than Kylo. I'm just saying that someone with zero training beating someone who's a master and multiple elite guards is too much of a stretch for me.

6 minutes ago, Noosh said:

@Megatronrex all that incopeteance on both sides sold it to me (mostly because I'm a jaded cynic) I see bad decisions blow up all the time.

I can believe a certain amount of incompetence but it's just scene after scene of it. From d*** near every character. After a certain point it becomes much easier to believe in incompetent script writers than two entire fleets worth of incompetent people.

7 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

I can believe a certain amount of incompetence but it's just scene after scene of it. From d*** near every character. After a certain point it becomes much easier to believe in incompetent script writers than two entire fleets worth of incompetent people.

Have you SEEN the real world recently?

Fleets of incompetence is the norm, it only makes sense to leak into our fantasy

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Have you SEEN the real world recently?

Fleets of incompetence is the norm, it only makes sense to leak into our fantasy

You keep your filthy reality out of my fantasy sir.

2 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

You keep your filthy reality out of my fantasy sir.

Sorry, Larry.

BUT

IM

THERE

NOW.

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Sorry, Larry.

BUT

IM

THERE

NOW.

So has everybody got that out of there system.

Can we please countinue talking of the series.

26 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

I'm not disputing the strength of her connection to the force. I think she absolutely has a stronger connection than Kylo. I'm just saying that someone with zero training beating someone who's a master and multiple elite guards is too much of a stretch for me.

Well it's established she has some, if not all of Kylo's training, because he implanted himself when he entered her mind. So she IS trained. Sort of. It's not conventional, but it is there. Also, Luke had been disconnected from the force so that even Leia couldn't sense him for decades. Dude might be a little rusty. And let's face it, his heart wasn't in that fight... he knew he was wrong and it had been weighing on him for years.

The elite guards maybe, makes sense but with Kylo's training, and the time she spent learning to connect to the force, it may be more than enough. Kylo was able enough, so it makes sense she would be close or even better if she had the same training.... which she does... literally... lol

It makes more sense to me than Luke bending energy torpedoes to sink a moon sized battle station after only like 30 min of drone exercises. lol

1 minute ago, c5alinas said:

So has everybody got that out of there system.

Can we please countinue talking of the series.

What do we know about it other than what's been said?