Hi guys,

my new Kraken lieutenant had an encounter with the heroes' party.

I grab two of them and dragged them into the krakens toothy maw. All good

However, as far as I can tell, two of them are completely immune to me!

One of them has the skill that negates grapple (ox tattoo?) and the other has silver armour that negates grapple.

Without being able to grapple the heroes my tentacles, as far as I can see, are not allowed do them any damage at all. A tentacle has to start its turn with the hero grappled in order to constrict them.

So the two remaining heroes dropped the anchor, and sat there

My regenning kraken sat in the sea (i'm not allowed on-board), and the2 immune melee heroes sat on the ship.

Total stalemate.

We decided to just call it there, heros and lieutenant stay at the location, but nothing else happens.

Anything I should be doing?

I haven't really dug into Sea of Blood yet... Does the Kraken not have any other way of attacking aside from grappling and constricting? That seems like a fairly significant oversight, especially considering past loopholes concerning monsters with ineffective attacks (ie: grappled dragon with hero on a corner)

Assuming not then, yeah. Stalemate. Assuming neither side is willing to flee and the two remaining heroes are equally incapable of wounding the Kraken. That sucks.

Steve-O said:

He has a bite, but he can only attack players in the water, and may not leave the water himself.

So if a player is onboard the ship and is immune to grapple there is no way that I can see to hurt them, or move them into the water.

qu0zl said:

That sounds about right to me (unfortunately.) Does the Kraken have any minions it can reinforce with and send them after the heroes? If so, stockpile as many as you have figures for out in the water, then swarm them (or use the minions as bait to tempt the heroes into the water.)

Steve-o, please, please stop replying to my detailed rule threads if you haven't read the rules.

qu0zl said:

Yeah comments like this will not make anyone want to help you, especially since its not that detailed.

I'm sure someone will shoot this down but technically Tentacles don't have Grapple. They say that the figure it shares a spaces with is Grappled (like the ability). Technically, you could say that since they don't have the ability, those two heroes aren't immune to the effect.

It will be something to ask FFG

I think I'd have to agree with Big Remy here, otherwise that's a pretty major oversight, heroes in the same space as a tentacle are "Grappled" "like the ability" but tentacles don't technically have "Grapple" as such, the heroes can't be immune to it.

Big Remy said:

Someone replying to a rule question without even having read the rules is basically derailing the thread.

It's not helpful at all. In fact it's the exact opposite.

If people won't call someone out on rudeness like that, then they'll continue to do it.

Anyway, thanks for the replies Big Remy and Kartigan.

I don't agree with your reasoning but appreciate the thought that went into the reply. It has Grapple in bold text, to my mind meaing it's the Grapple ability. FFG bold specific game terms in their manual. It even says 'as the ability.' Not similarly to the ability, but, as the ability.

IE it is grapple, not similar to grapple.

That would be my interpretation still. I'll email FFG.

Thanks for the help.

So why did you not send a tentacle over to man the anchor?

Additionally, why not send a tentacle over to the captains wheel and steer their ship into a rock....or off the board....

Fizz said:

I don't think the Kraken is allowed man the anchor.

Page 24 covers 'figures' manning the anchor/wheel. A tentacle is a token, not a figure, and the Kraken isn't allowed leave the water. He would have to stand on the anchor station to man it, but he's not allowed leave the water.

So I don't think he, or his tentacles are allowed. I've used a skeleton to spin the wheel and send the heroes' boat towards rocks previously but, I don't think the Kraken can do it.

qu0zl said:

I don't hink Steve-O was being rude, but your reply to him seemed to be unneccessarily curt.

I agree that a question should be e-mailed to FFG because it is kind of vague and I could be way off. Also I would like to point out that the rulebook doesn't actually say "Grapple" in bold text but that figures in the same space as the tentacle are "Grappled" (as per the ability). If you are saying that tentacles have the Grapple ability, wouldn't that mean that figures adjacent to them cannot spend movement points since the that is what the ability actually reads?

Again my feeling is that they don't technically have "Grapple" and so nothing can be immune to them, but I agree its a question for FFG. Let us know if you hear back from them.

qu0zl said:

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but where did you read this? I've been wondering about them and sharks and if they were tentacles or figures, do you have a pg number that describes this? If they aren't figures, doesn't that mean they don't block LoS and enemy heros can move through them?

Kartigan said:

Page 42, describes a tentacles as 'marker's.

It doesn't specifically say they're not figures, but it also doesn't say they are, and I think that's an unfair leap for me to make tbh. As it's to my advantage. I think they are what it says they are, markers that can do specific things, ie move, and use a limited grapple ability.

We're currently treating them as blocking LOS, but I'd guess by RAW they shouldn't. Either way is reasonably equal to the heroes, so we're not pushed, and blocking was more intuitive to us. Allowing the kraken to grapple the grapple immune heroes would be a big deal. Though, of course, they could always just stand on the other side of the ship and all be immune to him anyway

Also, not in reply to you, but in reply to why not to use them to man the wheel etc, page 27 gives a list of the monsters that can man a station. Tentacles and krakens aren't in them. I don't see anywhere that says lieutenants can always man stations, so i don't think they're allowed.

qu0zl said:

How is someone being helpful rude? Steve-O was merely giving you suggestions to the best of his ability, since no one else was replying yet. Doesn't sound rude to me. In fact, your response to him is what I would call rude and uncalled for.

You're being rude, and I'm calling you out on it! So stop it

-shnar

That's really a bummer. I kinda considered the tentacles and daggertooth sharks as figures because they move and attack like figures, they can be attacked like figures, and the sharks even have a monster reference card (and to a lesser extent, so do tentacles). Couldn't someone easily argue that the Lieutenants are "technically" markers?

Reason being the situation you are in, even if the hero are not immune to grapple, the ship is wide enough that they can easily move out of reach of a tentacle (since the tentacles cannot move more than 3 spaces away from the controlling figure, and the ship is 6 squares wide). I think the idea of the Kraken is that because of his Ironskin and Regen the heroes really need to use cannons against the Kraken, which would put them within tentacle's reach.

I have said this before, they *REALLY* need to look at their Tentacle rules!

How is someone being helpful rude? Steve-O was merely giving you suggestions to the best of his ability, since no one else was replying yet. Doesn't sound rude to me. In fact, your response to him is what I would call rude and uncalled for.

You're being rude, and I'm calling you out on it! So stop it

LOL

I posted two rule threads, and got three completely non-sensical replies from the same person. They hadn't ever read the rules, or played the expansion.

Both threads were simply going to end up with a ridiculous back and forth.

I would much rather wait and possibly get a reply, than that.

I stand by my opinon that it's unhelpful. It's pure noise.

Even pointing it out has filled this thread with noise. It's a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Hence the destructiveness of the first behaviour imo.

Anyway, both threads turned out interesting imo, so thanks guys.

You get em Shnar !

You get em Shnar ! Shnar his but

The fact that the rules for Tentacles specify that the hero is treated as being Grappled (as the ability) only when sharing a space with a tentacle can be taken two ways I would think:

1) That tentacles have Grapple, but a limited version that is only one space

2) The Grappled (like the ability) solely indicates that the hero can't spend MPs and can be constricted without having to write a second set of rules.

I'd personally go with (2) here, because if Tentacles have Grapple then it should affect adjacent spaces. Since it doesn't, you can argue that it is different.

Its not rock solid, but since the Kraken can't leave the water its seems more balanced.

qu0zl said:

Oh, and to resolve your stalemate you could use the following logic:

A) Kraken is doing everything is can to damage heroes, but it is impossible to do so. No choice is implied.

B) Heroes can damage Kraken, but instead choose not.

Therefore: Since the players are the only ones with the CHOICE to do something in the matter, their CHOICE to not engage could also be seen as a CHOICE to flee.

Ripley... said:

Lol, +1 I don't know what the OP's problem is with Steve-O.

Kartigan said:

Well, Steve-O is a Jackass™, isn't he? Just ask Johnny Knoxville!

Fizz said:

*grin* that would be true

But again, I contend with your (qu0zl) definition of "rude". It is not rude to be as helpful as you can, pointing you in a good direction. What is rudeful is you telling him to butt-out of the conversation because you think he's ignorant. Steve-O is hardly ignorant and has contributed to many discussion on these forums, a simple perusal of the boards would show you this. He's doing anything bug derailing the conversation. In fact, the most "off-topic" post is you telling him to stop posting.

I highly doubt that many of the people who have replied have actually *played* this expansion, let alone encountered the Kraken. Most have just read the rules and viewed the components and are applying their best judgements. I'm positive Steve-O has indeed read the rules, but since he's not playing an SoB campaign, he doesn't have them handily memorized. Ditto here, I've read the rules many times and am even playing an SoB campaign, but we won't be seeing the Kraken for some time.

Steve-O's posts were anything but rude, and yours was very rude. I believe you owe him an apology.

-shnar