My best advice: if you are having trouble beating something, run it yourself if you can. I usually learn the weaknesses of a list really fast when I put it on the table myself.

1 hour ago, TallTonyB said:

My best advice: if you are having trouble beating something, run it yours  elf if you can. I usually learn the weaknesses of a list really fast when I put it on the table myself.

Exactly why I got some Uthuk.

12 hours ago, Wraithist said:

But what if you can spend the Chiropthrope's unique surge to increase the Ardus unit's threat by 1, then you would only need one more surge to reduce armor by one. Threat increase mixed with armor decrease is pretty much the definition of insane and I think worth the points that seem - at least at the moment - to be extreme.

I would applaud the beuty of this combo triggering as you describe, so please try it out and write up a battle report if you can

But so many stars has to be aligned for this to be worth the cost, and in a tournament they must align over 3 games or something. That is the issue, and a big one as well. I'm thinking for example that:

-It probably needs to trigger multiple times during each game to get ahead. So you need good terrain placement, deployment and hope that the enemy doesn't dance around your combo unit (which they probably can if it's reanimates).

-The targetS must be susceptible to the combo, i.e. armor 2-3, which actually limits the selection quite a bit (Oathsworn, Leonx, Threshers, Ravos). Reducing 4+ armour by one is probably not cost efficient. The targets can't be too small (i.e. 1x1's or 2x1's) either because then you might overshoot with damage. So blockers of almost any kind makes you waste opportunity.

-The objectives are not of the "go out and fetch" type, because you have locked so many points in your rigid surge-borrow sphere that you can't fetch. You could loose without either player making a single swing.

-The opponent don't snipe you combo pieces. Ranged units or wreckingballs like 2x1 Spined threshers can ruin your day before the sun gets to shine.

Edit: Duskblade needed to be 4p, like Reaping blade, or only 1 surge. This would also have put Ardus (with it equipped) on the map.

7 hours ago, Maktorius said:

-The objectives are not of the "go out and fetch" type, because you have locked so many points in your rigid surge-borrow sphere that you can't fetch. You could loose without either player making a single swing.

This, I think, is a given. The truth is that the current tournament objectives don't have a "collect tokens for points" objective in them, which is the only reason I've started messing with 12-tray Ardus Reanimates in the first place. It's a non-issue. Demoralize Their Forces can still be bad, but not unwinnable.

7 hours ago, Maktorius said:

-The opponent don't snipe you combo pieces. Ranged units or wreckingballs like 2x1 Spined threshers can ruin your day before the sun gets to shine.

Sniping is a huge concern for Ardus, and I'm trying to figure out how to mitigate that problem.

Spined Threshers have no accuracy, so they can't "snipe" anything. Sure, they can chase your Duskblade unit (or whatever is offering surges to Ardus), and that is a weakness of the list that has to be worked around. If you can leverage your Ardus block early, you could be ahead enough to be able to outpace your opponent in points destroyed. I think it's your typical example of risk reward and player play style.

On 8/9/2018 at 10:54 AM, Parakitor said:

Sniping is a huge concern for Ardus, and I'm trying to figure out how to mitigate that problem.

For sure!! Originally this was another reason I had Maro with Duskblade, as Ardus can use a single surge to heal himself if he needs.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 AM, Maktorius said:

Edit: Duskblade needed to be 4p, like Reaping blade, or only 1 surge. This would also have put Ardus (with it equipped) on the map

Yeah, I agree. In a game where great lists are hard to make under 200 pts, this is really important. I guess it's kind of like the undead version of a glass hammer.

Plus the Ardus upgrade card should have a +1 surge on it too.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:38 AM, Maktorius said:

I would applaud the beuty of this combo triggering as you describe, so please try it out and write up a battle report if you can

It would be so choice! (fun in theory, probably frustrating in practice, lol)

If you've Maro'd a fourth row of Skelebros in that big block you get 3 re-rolls though so you're going to hit that combo at least once or twice and that might be all you need... plus if you have Vorunthul and maybe some wraiths/dks handling the problem units, it could work.

I played against a Daqan army today with my Ardus block. Kari and Cavalry ensured Ardus got killed before the Reanimates had a chance to attack. I realized that even with Regenerative Magic Maro, Ardus wouldn't have been able to borrow surges to heal. I probably won't try that combo soon. I'd sooner bring Violent Maro I think.

I think that "The Duskblade solution" is a rerelease that looks like this:

Effectively reducing the cost of the first armour reduction from 2 to 1 surges and the second from 4 to 3.

I've added it to the Balancing Houserules thread.

It was fun slamming a 2x1 Death Knight Duskblade unit into the flanks of a 2x2 Oathsworn Cav last night. On the initial charge, the Oathsworn lost 5 units. The followup attack on defending Oathsworn wiped them out. The remaining Death Knights proceeded to engage a 3x2 spearmen unit after.

48 minutes ago, Aetheriac said:

It was fun slamming a 2x1 Death Knight Duskblade unit into the flanks of a 2x2 Oathsworn Cav last night. On the initial charge, the Oathsworn lost 5 units. The followup attack on defending Oathsworn wiped them out. The remaining Death Knights proceeded to engage a 3x2 spearmen unit after.

Duskblade is scary against 2 armor units for sure. And Combat Ingenuity really ups the chance of that surge happening.

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:59 AM, Glucose98 said:

Duskblade is scary against 2 armor units for sure. And Combat Ingenuity really ups the chance of that surge happening.

I would love to try an army that centers around a massive block of DKs with Duskblade CI. Kind of like @Duke2000 's list that won Gencon last year the big block of Oathsworn. Same idea but centered around DKs. That'd be interesting.

Quick List, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

Ardus w/ Obscasium and Ardus Fury (43 points)

2x1 CL (27 points)

1x1 CL (15 points)

Total 197

I figure the DKs can be 2x2 or 2x3, they can't be 3x2 and there is no benefit for one more reroll for the points it costs so I go 2x2.

11 hours ago, Curlycross said:

I would love to try an army that centers around a massive block of DKs with Duskblade CI. Kind of like @Duke2000 's list that won Gencon last year the big block of Oathsworn. Same idea but centered around DKs. That'd be interesting.

Quick List, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

Ardus w/ Obscasium and Ardus Fury (43 points)

2x1 CL (27 points)

1x1 CL (15 points)

Total 197

Should work great against this baby

12 hours ago, Curlycross said:

I would love to try an army that centers around a massive block of DKs with Duskblade CI. Kind of like @Duke2000 's list that won Gencon last year the big block of Oathsworn. Same idea but centered around DKs. That'd be interesting.

Quick List, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

2x2 DKs w/ CI and Duskblade (56 points)

Ardus w/ Obscasium and Ardus Fury (43 points)

2x1 CL (27 points)

1x1 CL (15 points)

Total 197

I figure the DKs can be 2x2 or 2x3, they can't be 3x2 and there is no benefit for one more reroll for the points it costs so I go 2x2.

Can't have two duskblades, as they're unique cards unfortunately.

6 hours ago, Zaaik said:

Can't have two duskblades, as they're unique cards unfortunately.

Womp.