Can the second sentence of Elusive “After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 (charge token).”, allow you to recover a charge token on something other than Elusive itself? Say, a pilot ability or missile?

11 minutes ago, gibbro said:

Can the second sentence of Elusive “After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 (charge token).”, allow you to recover a charge token on something other than Elusive itself? Say, a pilot ability or missile?

• When an effect instructs a ship to Recover a charge, an inactive charge on that ship (ship or upgrade card) is flipped to its active side. A card cannot recover a charge if all of its charges are on their active side.

Looking at other cards (like gonk) it seems any mention of recharging would only apply to the upgrade or ship that the recharging ability is on. Meaning Elusive would only ever recharge Elusive. I just didn’t see a clear enough wording in the rule book.

Contrast with a card like Chopper (Astromech), who can remove or place charges from equipped upgrades (while not having a charge value for himself). By specifically using the phrase "equipped upgrade," he's referring to all the various upgrades on a ship, rather than just himself. The LACK of such language on cards like Elusive implies that the counters - and the recharge - only works on itself.

(Don't be too surprised, though, if FFG makes some new cards along the way, that allow us to somehow share charge counters between cards...)

On 8/7/2018 at 7:09 PM, Innese said:

When an effect instructs a ship to Recover a charge, an inactive charge on that ship (ship or upgrade card) is flipped to its active side. A card cannot recover a charge if all of its charges are on their active side.

It's weird, but the wording here (I didn't bother to verify, I guess this is taken straight from the rule ref.?) definitly seems to say that you can regen other upgrade card with any Recover-A-Charge effect. It's (IMO) almost certainly not RaI, but seems to be RaW.

So... recharging missile/gonk/R2 with elusiveness? Suddenly elusiveness seems even better!

So my initial answer is, no you can't use Elusiveness to regenerase energy charges on other energy cards because OF COURSE YOU CAN'T. You don't get to do a red maneuver and then suddenly have a torpedo reloaded.

If you want a specific rules reference stuff:

-If an upgrade card has a charge limit, the charges are placed above that upgrade card (not the ship card it is attached to).

-If an upgrade card instructs the ship to spend a charge those charges are spent from that upgrade card.

-When an effect instructs a ship to recover a charge, an inactive chare on that ship (ship or upgrade card) is flipped to its active side.

When spending charges it is very explicit that they can only be spent from the card that is creating the effect. When talking about recovery they just shorthanded it together (ship or upgrade card) so yeah you've got this RAW rules lawyer wedge to slip in there but why would recovery be a free for all when spending isnt?

Yeah well I understand that it goes against all intent and logic, but I must say that, as a very avid player of WH40k, where the rules and FULL of bad interaction and unclear rules, I can tell your that if it isn't clearly written, someone will argue for it at one point. The best way to avoid this is to clearly write down : when an effect instruct you to regen a charge those charge are regenerated on that upgrade card.

I've got the same problem with a game recently with this point :

Elusive and Contraband Cybernetics on Ig, my opponent said nothing can't stop to doing this because

" When an effect instructs a ship to Recover a charge, an inactive charge on that ship (ship or upgrade card) is flipped to its active side. A card cannot recover a charge if all of its charges are on their active side."

I protest because it's was against the common sense (but I accept because the rule don't precise after heshow me the rule), so I think a little precision on the rules should be necessary just to avoid this kind of trick !

" When an effect instructs a ship to recover a charge, an inactive charge
on that ship (ship or upgrade card) is flipped to its active side. A card
cannot recover a charge if all of its charges are on their active side." - page 2 of the rules reference (bold by me)

It clearly says a charge on THAT upgrade. Not any upgrade.

So a recover only pertains to the card it's on, be that a ship or an upgrade.

The rules seem quite precise on this one.

Yeah this isn't that ambiguous at all, You recharge a charge on the relevant card, not on any card that happens to be nearby.

Thank you for the answer look like I be fooled by this trick.

Will not fall again !

It clearly says a charge on THAT upgrade. Not any upgrade.

Quote plz.

I doesn't see anything like this in reference rules book .

And chopper have a very specific rules around no-recurrent charge. You can't use his rules here.

It's just RaW. And rules allowed to recover charge on any card of a ship.

It work with elusive, with gonk and certainly with other cards.

24 minutes ago, Shaony said:

It clearly says a charge on THAT upgrade. Not any upgrade.

Quote plz.

I doesn't see anything like this in reference rules book .

And chopper have a very specific rules around no-recurrent charge. You can't use his rules here.

It's just RaW. And rules allowed to recover charge on any card of a ship.

It work with elusive, with gonk and certainly with other cards.

I think I've read this a dozen times an I have no idea what you're trying to say. Can you try again.

Think anyone who would try and pull this trick wouldn't exactly be playing the game in the spirit it's intended; certainly not gentlemanly or lady like.

On 8/7/2018 at 5:58 PM, gibbro said:

Can the second sentence of Elusive  “After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 (charge token).”, allow you to recover a charge token on something other than Elusive itself? Say, a pilot ability or missile?

I would almost say YES except the fact that the first sentence is about spending a charge token. If the second sentence was the ONLY sentence, then you should be able to recover a charge on any charge. They way the rules are written, unless stated, all recovering of tokens only applies to the token on said card.