1.0 phantoms were in such a weird spot. Against any ships with higher PS and/or turrets (especially TLT), they could die pretty quick.

Against everything else they were an absolute nightmare to face. They can arc dodge you, have 4 agility dice with tokens if they don't, and hit like a truck with 4-5 dice attacks with FCS.

6 hours ago, JasonCole said:

4x would be back to 12, if it fits in 200 points.

I think someone was talking Juke, Gonk, Shield Upgrade. That'd be 66 per.

29 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

No to both, I'm afraid. The new Krennic specifies another friendly ship, and new OP no longer grants an extra shield.

Good. 1e Krennic was absolutely broken for the price.

So, I tried out the new phantom (Whisper with Juke and Seventh Sister for a moderately priced force token) alongside 3 bombers* vs. Vader w/Inferno squad mini-swarm. My thoughts;

-Moving second is still a big deal for Whisper, so bids are a good idea. And SR Vader, with his pre-move barrel roll, is very tricky to fight (The other I6 pilots should be easier to pin down). But, since you have a decent sized squad, Whisper doesn't need to solo an enemy Ace.

-That shiny new one bank opens up some interesting possibilities for slow rolling decloaks.

-Wounded Pilot really sucks on phantoms, since you can get stressed from the decloak evade. I got lucky with the rolls (And Vader was busy trying not to get hit with rockets), but it's still a nasty crit.

-At 34 1.0 points, I didn't really miss the fourth attack die (not when I had three bombers who could have fully modified attacks and force defense re-rolls), but losing FCS's re-rolls hurts. Krennic+FCS is expensive, but might still be worth it if you have something to give OP to.

-The classic decloak+1 hard is still great.

-Informant and Sense are worth considering for giving you a little extra info when decloaking.

-Collision Detector could open up the field quite a bit; Since decloaking is defined as barrel rolling or boosting, I think it still works, and the 2 charges open up a lot of possibilities. No more shall rocks force a bad decloak!

So, overall, I like the new phantom. It's not going to solo a Tie Swarm, but I think we're all happy for that. It's a quirky midrange ship with a lot of potential options.

*2 Gamma Vets+Jonus with Barrage rockets and Saturation Salvo. Fun when they work, but the reliance on focus tokens and range 2-3 means coming about is a nightmare.

I still kinda like the thought of FCS and New Krennic, though. Optimized Prototype only can spend hit, crit, and focus results (no longer blanks), but a lot of ships out there probably want to be saving focus for defense. However, there's also an additional option to, instead of removing a shield, expose a damage card. This can allow someone like a Soontir or a Duchess who perhaps clips an enemy ship and doesn't want to spend tokens can instead spend dice to cash in dice on weaker attack rolls.

Meanwhile, Krennic is kinda like the old Targeting Computer, and for only a single 2e point more, you get the condition's effects. Adding in the new FCS, combined with the ways that Evade tokens will power Juke, it seems like a decent enough way to spend 8 points.

17 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Good. 1e Krennic was absolutely broken for the price.

Shield Upgrade = 4, Fire Control System = 2, Krennic = 5, and that doesn't even put a value on the OptProt's shield removal abilities. So already a saving of 1 point, even if folks don't value the condition's normal effects. That sucker is so cheap.

53 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I still kinda like the thought of FCS and New Krennic, though. Optimized Prototype only can spend hit, crit, and focus results (no longer blanks), but a lot of ships out there probably want to be saving focus for defense. However, there's also an additional option to, instead of removing a shield, expose a damage card. This can allow someone like a Soontir or a Duchess who perhaps clips an enemy ship and doesn't want to spend tokens can instead spend dice to cash in dice on weaker attack rolls.

Meanwhile, Krennic is kinda like the old Targeting Computer, and for only a single 2e point more, you get the condition's effects. Adding in the new FCS, combined with the ways that Evade tokens will power Juke, it seems like a decent enough way to spend 8 points.

Shield Upgrade = 4, Fire Control System = 2, Krennic = 5, and that doesn't even put a value on the OptProt's shield removal abilities. So already a saving of 1 point, even if folks don't value the condition's normal effects. That sucker is so cheap.

I guess I meant it was his ability that made him broken, and being able to assign the card to his own ship, and get additional shields on top of that, just made a ridiculous card more ridiculous.

Regardless, his 2e version looks much more reasonable, though still fun to play with.

I'm just dissapointed in there still being 4 red primaries after nerfing the phantom's guns, the gost and dash make the evade Nerf crippleing. Honestly green dice are a joke, arcdodge, out dps or tank, empire now has a learning cliff

Krenic is so cheap I wouldn't be surprised if his price rise in the future.

6 hours ago, DR4CO said:

No to both, I'm afraid. The new Krennic specifies another friendly ship, and new OP no longer grants an extra shield.

Whoa, I completely missed that. Thanks!

edit: nevermind, I'm still tired

13 hours ago, KaLeu said:

Director Krennic would be my first choice for the Phantom. He grants Lock and optimized protoype to a second ship fpr just 5 points (yet).

Don't Underestimate Sloane, either. Yes, the obvious use for her is with a swarm of expendable TIEs but she grants rerolls to your entire squad if the enemy is stressed - either from killing one of your ships or from having to do red moves and linked reposition actions to try and keep pointed towards cloak-dancing phantoms.

Plus, you can put her in a phantom and have irritatingly-elusive-phantom-and-swarm rather than enormous-easy-to-line-up-on-target and swarm.

10 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

4x Juke Phantoms is exactly 200 points.

Yeah. The Phantom is very much an imperial medium-fighter like the X-wing. One less hit point but dear god can it bounce around the board.

10 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

4x Juke Phantoms is exactly 200 points.

So, do I need to buy/borrow a 4th Phantom, or are 3 with better pilots/more upgrades a better list?

7 hours ago, Squark said:

Informant and Sense are worth considering for giving you a little extra info when decloaking.

That's a fair point. Informant is a bit more restrictive than 1.0 intel agent, but still very much worth a thought in a phantom squad.

A kitted out Defender with two Juke Sigmas sounds pretty tempting to me right now.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Don't Underestimate Sloane, either. Yes, the obvious use for her is with a swarm of expendable TIEs but she grants rerolls to your entire squad if the enemy is stressed - either from killing one of your ships or from having to do red moves and linked reposition actions to try and keep pointed towards cloak-dancing phantoms.

Plus, you can put her in a phantom and have irritatingly-elusive-phantom-and-swarm rather than enormous-easy-to-line-up-on-target and swarm.

Yeah. The Phantom is very much an imperial medium-fighter like the X-wing. One less hit point but dear god can it bounce around the board.

It isn't even really 1 less hit point because you have a pretty much unblockable evade token each turn. Makes them very durable

I've been playing:
Whisper
Juke
Advanced Sensors
Agent Kallus
Stealth Device

Echo
Juke
Fire Control System
Director Krennic
Stealth Device

Scarif Base Pilot
Palp

It is just silly, 3 agility when not cloaked, token stack, palp, try and hit me really.

If you move last, your opponent is in for a world of hurt, being able to cloak with an evade, palp, and have 5 defense dice is disrespectful. I've rolled 7 on multiple occasions in testing (range 3 through a rock, only shot they had on me)

The major issue is that it is a bit weak on offense, but I'm not sure I care.

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Don't Underestimate Sloane, either. Yes, the obvious use for her is with a swarm of expendable TIEs but she grants rerolls to your entire squad if the enemy is stressed - either from killing one of your ships or from having to do red moves and linked reposition actions to try and keep pointed towards cloak-dancing phantoms.

Plus, you can put her in a phantom and have irritatingly-elusive-phantom-and-swarm rather than enormous-easy-to-line-up-on-target and swarm.

That’s exactly where my mind went after being inspired by this thread to start list building. Comes out to 199 points and has the added benefit of all pilots being In4. Just not sure what to do with the last 3 points, thus Electronic Baffles on Turr.

The list I came up with:

Whisper/Juke/Krennic/FCS

Double Edge/Dorsal Turret/Debris Gambit/Homing Missile

Duchess/Juke

Pure Sabacc/Juke

200 points

12 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

Comes out to 199 points and has the added benefit of all pilots being In4. Just not sure what to do with the last 3 points, thus Electronic Baffles on Turr.

I'm not sure a self-damaging upgrade on a hull three interceptor is a great plan, especially since an interceptor doesn't exactly have a hard time burning off stress.

3 points on Echo plus the 5 you've already spent would let you change Collision Detector to Advanced Sensors, which would let Sloane's ride pull red moves and still focus or pull pre-move barrel rolls to make Echo even less predictable than he already is.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'm not sure a self-damaging upgrade on a hull three interceptor is a great plan, especially since an interceptor doesn't exactly have a hard time burning off stress.

3 points on Echo plus the 5 you've already spent would let you change Collision Detector to Advanced Sensors, which would let Sloane's ride pull red moves and still focus or pull pre-move barrel rolls to make Echo even less predictable than he already is.

*She

23 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

*She

Whilst Whisper is consistently referred to as 'She', Echo's gender has been rather variable in FFG articles.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/6/19/echo/

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/5/5/cloaked-in-battle/

56 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Whilst Whisper is consistently referred to as 'She', Echo's gender has been rather variable in FFG articles.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/6/19/echo/

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/5/5/cloaked-in-battle/

Huh. I was operating under the impression that all phantom pilots were ladies. I suppose I stand corrected.

Echo is listed as female on Wookiepedia, as male in some articles and female in others, and - in one rather awkwardly edited FAQ article - both.

The only conclusion is that Echo isn't a person, it is a title. Granted to the one pilot at a time that is assigned to the Phantom that always flies wonky while cloaked.

4 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

The only conclusion is that Echo isn't a person, it is a title. Granted to the one pilot at a time that is assigned to the Phantom that always flies wonky while cloaked.

Or biologically changes sex periodically, or is from a sexually ambiguous species, or is just trans.

She is an Echo of his former self.

Been trying to find a way to have both echo and whisper in a list and the biggest stick in the eye i keep running into is what crew to include.
One of them has Vader, thats a given. Vader is simply too good on a phantom. But the other either is the Inquis/Sister (which is kinda pricy and pushes a lot of good 3rd ship options out the window) or ... just 000. Any other ideas?

4 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

The only conclusion is that Echo isn't a person, it is a title. Granted to the one pilot at a time that is assigned to the Phantom that always flies wonky while cloaked.

The Dread Pirate Echo