I never use it so I don’t know but had a fun idea. Can you guys on vassal use 1.0 vs 2.0? Put 3 phantoms, cost be damned, against each other 1 set 1.0 and the other 2.0. See which cuisine reigns supreme! Be fun to report the findings here.

I guess the ps vs init might be a problem, I don’t know if some sharper minds could figure out a work around.

Until now I only played phantoms in 2.0 and I’m loving it. It’s a different ship. You can do more unpredictable things because the dial is slightly improved and the k-turns are open cause of the new cloaking mechanic. With a low price point you can add strong crew members like vader or grand inquisitor. Putting Vader on whisper and combine it with juke is brutally effective.

1 hour ago, Ryuneke said:

Until now I only played phantoms in 2.0 and I’m loving it. It’s a different ship. You can do more unpredictable things because the dial is slightly improved and the k-turns are open cause of the new cloaking mechanic. With a low price point you can add strong crew members like vader or grand inquisitor. Putting Vader on whisper and combine it with juke is brutally effective.

not just the dial. The elite pilot talent not being nailed to Veteran Instincts makes a big difference.

Essentially @ficklegreendice is right - the basic phantom is massively improved. In 1.0 the way cloaking works - specifically the way advanced cloaking device works - makes any generic phantom (and frankly also Echo) essentially useless; because you don't get 4 green dice to defend, you get 2 green dice because everyone shoots before you get a chance to recloak.

So whilst @joyrock isn't completely wrong, let's be more specific. The Phantom hasn't been hammered down. Veteran Instincts, Advanced Cloaking Device, Whisper has, because she was about ten times better than any other TIE Phantom for maybe 3-5 points cost increase.

However, the way the phantom has been changed is to make it able to survive not having the initiative advantage. You don't need to shoot first to live anymore.

Yes, you won't get 4 green dice. But you will get 2 green dice and focus/evade (which is an extremely powerful combination limited in practice pretty much to the phantom, the oh-dear-god-how-expensive TIE/x7 defender, and a few unique pilots. Add to the fact that you can spend multiple tokens on one attack, and whisper's ability to get a free evade token means she can create an automatic double-evade out of blank dice after shooting someone. Plus, 2 green dice with an evade actually produces on average more evade results than 4 unmodified green dice.

Yes, you can't dodge a 3rd hit, but opponents don't tend to have target-lock-and-focus anymore, and you can afford to take one extra hit due to your 5th hit point.

And finally, you're not just a clay pidgeon if facing a higher initiative turret, or someone who dodges your arc of fire. The ability to recloak if someone soontir fels out of your arc of fire, or to have that evade after han lines up a turret on you at initiative 6, is a big, big deal for a phantom.

Oh dear god. I just realized the Phantom can take a discounted Shield Upgrade, and a Gonk Droid as crew.

I'm not sure how Whisper is nerfed when she just got the ability to regen while cloaked. Whisper with Juke, Gonk, AdvS and a shield upgrade clocks in at 80 points and should be infuriating to deal with.

3 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Oh dear god. I just realized the Phantom can take a discounted Shield Upgrade, and a Gonk Droid as crew.

Or a stealth device, giving you 3 agility in the clear or 5 when cloaked. Yes. Because the price of modifications works off your base agility, you get them at the same price as the TIE striker and TIE bomber.

2 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I'm not sure how Whisper is nerfed when she just got the ability to regen while cloaked. Whisper with Juke, Gonk, AdvS and a shield upgrade clocks in at 80 points and should be infuriating to deal with.

Juke is nice with Advanced Cloak's free evade. Elusive or Lone Wolf are quite tasty too, and Seventh Sister or Vader extremely nice crew - firstly giving you a force token as a free mini-focus and second letting you spend said token for nasty token denial tricks if you don't need them for dice modifiers.

14 hours ago, joyrock said:

Really don't need to.

I understand where this comes from, and for quite a while I thought the same. But then it came to me. See, Whisper was a massive target and it's survivability was crucial so it needed those 4 dice always. Furthermore, the whole list depended on it. Now, Phantoms are not primary targets anymore as they are not that dangerous (compared to whisper, fcs, gunner, kallus, krennic, whatever), so if one dies the list is still ok. Thus, enemy ships will shoot far less at it, and it survives longer. If they choose to shoot at it, as it is cheaper now, the list survives longer. It is just a matter of perspective, the basic role changed, but no so much survivability. At least survivability of the list.

16 minutes ago, Jagos said:

survivability of the list.

Nailed it. I just mocked up a list with 2 Juke Sigmas and a Daredevil, Advanced Sensors Ryad. I imagine the Phantoms will not be target no.1....

14 hours ago, joyrock said:

Stygium is slightly better, but is vastly inferior to Advanced Cloaking Device, where most of its evasiveness comes from. 

And was the reason only whisper with VI was playable.

14 hours ago, joyrock said:

And in doing so they made it thoroughly mediocre and unremarkable.

As others explained to you, not at all.

Don't ask for explanation and reply without taking those explanation into account, unless you are a troll. Tie/pH is very different in V2. The fact that you don't like it don't make it bad for real.

14 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The TIE Phantom is a symbol of when and how everything changed. Going over 3 firepower was a mistake. Just look at The Ghost and Fenn Rau, and you'll see that I'm right. 3 should be the absolute limit, if you ask me. The Phantom taught us how important higher firepower and repositioning was, it changed the battlefield forever. Everything after it, had to take it into account. Even its nerfed version.

Good thing that ALL of those things were changed in 2.0.... oh wait

I can't believe it but i agree with Fickle, the Tie Phantom did get nerfed but it is an improved ship. it lost it's gimmick, but it was a gimmick that could not be pulled off since wave 5, i had 3 Tie Phantoms and i sold off 2 of them because you just could not put down 3 generics and even think you could stand a chance, in 2.0 i may buy 1 or 2 more to have some generic fun, since the Advanced is a lost cause.

@joyrock is going to get his ticket punched by 2.0 phantoms regularly, I'm guessing.

I just bought my fourth Phantom off of ebay last night. They're fun ships. All they really need now are some good budget crew and sensor upgrades.

If FFG wanted to make cloak break locks I wouldn't be too upset either.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Nailed it. I just mocked up a list with 2 Juke Sigmas and a Daredevil, Advanced Sensors Ryad. I imagine the Phantoms will not be target no.1....

Heh, they might be, only because Adv Sensor Ryad is particularly hard to nail down, but then so are decloaking Phantoms, I imagine.

This thread has been great - I still have a Phantom in its box. I only got it because I liked the look of it but have no experience with it. You guys are giving me plenty of ideas though, so it may be time to open that box up and start up some cloaking shenanigans.

14 hours ago, joyrock said:

Really don't need to.

It's comments like this that **** me off.

All ships were changed to some degree from 1.0 to 2.0. The cost reduction for Phantoms is great. Whisper can have 2 Evade tokens and a focus now, in a game that has taken away token stacking, that's amazing. Use someone like old faithful Kallus and you should be able to get 1 hit through, use Krennic in the list and you can have a 4 shielded Phantom that's token stacked.

Trying to convert my brain from 1.0 to 2.0 has been very hard, but I think those that can do it will prosper early in the tournament scene, not stuck in the old ways, trying to make old lists still work.

40 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

This thread has been great - I still have a Phantom in its box. I only got it because I liked the look of it but have no experience with it. You guys are giving me plenty of ideas though, so it may be time to open that box up and start up some cloaking shenanigans.

I bought 3 Phantoms about 18 months ago from Book Depository for about 50 bucks Australian. It seems I was waaay ahead of my time lol.

54 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

@joyrock is going to get his ticket punched by 2.0 phantoms regularly, I'm guessing.

It's a pretty mediocre ship now, so not likely.

4 minutes ago, joyrock said:

It's a pretty mediocre ship now, so not likely.

64pt whisper with 5 actions per turn is not mediocre in my opinion. I think you are pretty wrong on this and unreasonably entrenched in your opinion on the issue.

2 minutes ago, joyrock said:

It's a pretty mediocre ship now, so not likely.

I think this thread has moved away from trying to convince someone why it's good, to showing people some ideas for their 2.0 Phantoms. We don't really care one iota if you like or dislike the ship Joyrock. There has been some great ideas put forward and I daresay people will try them. I think you were looking for some support in this thread, but there isn't any. It's not a one trick pony anymore, it's not Initiative dependant anymore. I hardly remember flying against anything below PS 9 in 1.0 anymore, so the boring Whisper build was put away for another day.

September 13th is that day.

One big thing we all gotta do as a collective is to break away from the 1st Ed mindset

You CAN stuff Whisper with upgrades, but you really don't have to and are probably better off not doing it

Whisper with juke is a mere 56 points, or 28 in 1st Ed terms. That's CHEAP as ****, four points less than she was without any upgrades

And really, that's all you need. The rest is about leveraging manueverability with good flying

1 minute ago, player2422845 said:

Yo seem pretty mediocre also , so likely yes.

And yet I'm likely a better player than you.

3 minutes ago, joyrock said:

And yet I'm likely a better player than you

At least not with tie/phantom. Lol.

Thanks mate, I find this absolutely hilarious.

10 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think this thread has moved away from trying to convince someone why it's good, to showing people some ideas for their 2.0 Phantoms. We don't really care one iota if you like or dislike the ship Joyrock. There has been some great ideas put forward and I daresay people will try them. I think you were looking for some support in this thread, but there isn't any. It's not a one trick pony anymore, it's not Initiative dependant anymore. I hardly remember flying against anything below PS 9 in 1.0 anymore, so the boring Whisper build was put away for another day.

September 13th is that day.

I'm fine with it not being a one trick pony, the problem is now it has NO identity, and nothing putting it above any other ship. There's no reason to fly a phantom over anything else.

1 minute ago, joyrock said:

I'm fine with it not being a one trick pony, the problem is now it has NO identity, and nothing putting it above any other ship. There's no reason to fly a phantom over anything else.

You must have missed the part where I said it can multi token stack. Other than the Defender which is incredibly expensive, albeit awesome, tell me which ships can do this?

Wait are we ignoring the ability to cloak and decloak?

Just now, Archangelspiv said:

You must have missed the part where I said it can multi token stack. Other than the Defender which is incredibly expensive, albeit awesome, tell me which ships can do this?

It can multi token stack in a game where that means very little, and it has no defense against three dice or higher attacks. What's your point?

F***it. I'm flying NOTHING BUT PHANTOM.

U R gud playr.