Hi;

This is my first post on this forum. I am a veteran player of X-wing (since 2013), and I really enjoyed it since the beginning, and I am thrilled by that 2.0 has to offer.

Something bugs me though: the player order. In 1.0, in case of same squad value, the one who chooses who has the initiative is the winner of a 50% chance roll. I (and a few members of my community) can find this particularly frustrating with the right (or wrong ) circumstances. In 2.0, the rule of choosing the first player is the same.

I recently learned that in Destiny or in Imperial Assault, if the squad value (or team value) is the same, the first player switches each turn. I find the concept pretty interesting. Also, instead of a die roll, could it be the player who has the highest numbers of primary attack value in his squad, front arc ? And in case of a tie, highest number of defense dices ?

Thanks

I asked Alex about this at Euros, and he indicated that because X Wing was a lot longer in terms of turn count, and a lot quicker per turn, the alternating player order concept just didn't work well.

I'm slightly disappointed that it ended up being based on bidding though. I really don't like bidding as a mechanic. I'd prefer to just see it be a coin flip every time, regardless of points.

Basing it on any other stat than points spent just seems unwise, because those stats just are inherently not balanced against one another.

16 hours ago, Silver_leader said:

Hi;

This is my first post on this forum. I am a veteran player of X-wing (since 2013), and I really enjoyed it since the beginning, and I am thrilled by that 2.0 has to offer.

Something bugs me though: the player order. In 1.0, in case of same squad value, the one who chooses who has the initiative is the winner of a 50% chance roll. I (and a few members of my community) can find this particularly frustrating with the right (or wrong ) circumstances. In 2.0, the rule of choosing the first player is the same.

I recently learned that in Destiny or in Imperial Assault, if the squad value (or team value) is the same, the first player switches each turn. I find the concept pretty interesting. Also, instead of a die roll, could it be the player who has the highest numbers of primary attack value in his squad, front arc ? And in case of a tie, highest number of defense dices ?

Thanks

Did Destiny rules change? I was under the impression that highest roll of character dice determined who chooses the first battlefield, and subsequent turns are based on who controls the battlefield.

I think player order changes in Armada, however. Legion uses a different sort of initiative system, with an assortment of cards which allow a player to bid for a number of 'act first' units at a certain initiative level. Maybe one unit at init 1 (going first), or three units at init 3, or so forth. I've only played like one game of that, though.

//

Meanwhile in X-Wing, player order doesn't matter too much, I think. In positioning, blocking vs arc dodging can matter, or it can be harder for the first-moving player to get target locks, but only within an initiative band. In the engagement phase, player order matters even less, due to simultaneous attacks. There are some edge cases where it really matters (TIE Phantoms really love attacking first, for example), but most of the time, player order is far less important than Pilot Skill/Initiative.

I've thought about an alternating player order, since bidding is kind of annoying, but simply eliminating the bid and allowing a 50/50 dice roll every time per @thespaceinvader would also work well.

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think player order changes in Armada, however.

It doesn't, and is determined the same way it is in X-wing.

Well, that means that they at least have thought about it.

I also thought about new players who are playing a first game. Alternating initiative can be complicated, and when there are 2 ships left in endgame, thinking about alternating can be painful for both players. I don't see myself playing Soontir Fel against another Soontir, and thinking about 2 ways to play depending of the turn. It can create a lot of mistakes in my game.

I was suggesting about a number of red dice as a kind of reward for playing more offensively.

8 hours ago, DR4CO said:

It doesn't, and is determined the same way it is in X-wing.

It's far more important in Armada, to be fair; because of the way activations work.

Rather than moving and shooting in a strict order (barring two people having upgrades that work off the same trigger or one or two pilots with the same initiative), Armada commanders can chop and change the order of movement of any unit in their fleet, from a generic flotilla to a heavily upgraded named star destroyer, and do all the actions of a ship (moving and shooting) in one go. Frankly, it's one of my least favourite things about the game, because of the potential to 'double activate' stuff with initiative sinks and leave you with two shots to an opponent getting none, despite flying straight through their arc of fire at close range.

Plus, 'First Player' and 'Second Player' isn't just for initiative, but massively affects how the scenarios work (because you'll be playing a scenario from a selection picked by the second player during their fleet selection, from which they often get improved benefits, and - since they picked it - will presumably complement their fleet composition).

This is by far my biggest disappointment in 2.0. Passing a "first player" token back and forth is not difficult, no matter how relatively "short" the turns are, or "long" the game is in terms of turns. Being on the losing end of the bid + coin flip mechanic just plain sucks , and gameplay would be much more interesting if initiative was passed back and forth.

On 8/7/2018 at 2:12 PM, ObiWonka said:

This is by far my biggest disappointment in 2.0. Passing a "first player" token back and forth is not difficult, no matter how relatively "short" the turns are, or "long" the game is in terms of turns. Being on the losing end of the bid + coin flip mechanic just plain sucks , and gameplay would be much more interesting if initiative was passed back and forth.

Actually, the first player token would be helpful with this version....... for once....

Actually , who does reaaly use that token ?